Author Topic: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??  (Read 8107 times)

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« on: February 18, 2012, 12:31:24 PM »
Just like the title says: building a triple gestalt character, level 1 to 15ish probably, 32 point buy, all official 3.5 & web enhancements,

Other party members 2 -4
One was talking about cleric//full BaB stuff
another said either beguiler//something or wizard//rouge, skills, SA & skirmish stuff
the other two idk or if they will even play

My character concept is that he thinks he is superior and uses others for his gain
So far Kalashtar BinderX,KoSS5, thrallherd1//DFA

I would really like to have something similar to ghost4's malevolence or Fiend of Possession instead of DFA but I doubt it would get approved

Ok, two players dropped out and the DM wants to "experiment" we now have three in the party, triple gestalt(three classes instead of gestalt's two), tier 3 and below base classes only, no multiclassing within a "side" so that "we don't get confused"

Any ideas for the third class?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 03:28:22 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Gestalt Binder // DFA ideas?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 02:10:28 PM »
Hey, Ghostwalk! Get your Ghost-Malevolence-As-An-Outsider stuff here!
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Gestalt Binder // DFA ideas?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 03:26:06 AM »
Hey, Ghostwalk! Get your Ghost-Malevolence-As-An-Outsider stuff here!
I'll look into that for future reference due to the changes

So.. thinking of going human
 binder//dragonfire adept//dread necromancer focusing on bfc, social skills and fear effects
Entangling exhalation, tomb tainted soul
Improved binding, imperious command

That should get me started, any suggestions?
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 10:45:23 AM »
Incarnate!  Use it for buffs, and you'll just be...better....at everything.  YOu might be able to find some melds that boost either of those classes (or both) directly too.  I am actually pretty sure there's something for both.  If not, melds that boost indirectly still exist.

Though if you're set on DN, I guess not.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 12:24:05 PM »
I actually have the incarnum book, but honestly every time I try to read it I get bored, but I'll give it another shot.  Totemist needs high Con or Wis?
That frees up a feat dropping tomb tainted soul as well
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 01:06:21 PM »
Incarnate might be better for you, I don't know.  INcarnate has the Dragonfire Adept melds (I think that they're in Dragon Magic, but not sure...the web enhancement?), and requires Wis.  Your con score (not modifier) determines how many you can shape at once though, so it is somewhat important, but you only need a 19 to get full melding.  That's actually the only required, the wis only does DCs and such, so you don't need it if not going for the DCs.  Totemists require con for the DCs.  The stats you need as an INcarnum user are whatever you're using to play with (str, dex with Weapon Finesse, wis with Intuitive Attack or Zen Archery, etc.) and then a minimum of 19 con by level 20.  So basically, just play it like one of your other classes, and then have the added benefit of soulmelds.  Use things that don't directly affect your combat effectiveness, but increase your utility, like the Fellmist Robe giving you a miss chance, or the Crystal Helm giving you a will save boost and charm immunity.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 05:56:04 AM »
@dman: Ok, I really gave Magic of Incarnum a shot, spent a couple hours reading the book and handbooks, but I'm just not feeling it...

anyway, here's what I have so far...

Mokilok
Human
Binder20//Dragonfire Adept20//Dread Necromancer20

Attributes(32 point buy) 10,12,14,10,10,18

Familiar: Quasit(from DN)

Feats:
(Human) Tomb Tainted Soul
(cha1) Entangling Exhalation
(cha3) Fell Animate
(cha6)
(cha9)
(cha12)
(cha15)
(cha18)

Binder Bonus Feats:
(4th)Improved Binding
(11th)Ignore Special Requirements
(18th)Expel Vestige

Draconic Invocations:
Least
  Beguiling Influence
  Endure Exposure

Lesser
  Frightful Presence
  Humanoid Shape

Greater
  Chilling Fog
  Baleful Geas

Dark  (just in case we get this far)
  Energy Immunity

Breath Effects:
(2nd)Frost Breath
(5th)Slow Breath
(10th)Thunder Breath
(12th)Enduring Breath
(15th)Fivefold Breath of Tiamat
(20th)Force Breath

Advanced Learning:
(4th)Kelgore's Grave Mist (PhB II)
(8th)Black Sand (Sandstorm)
(12th)Haunt Shift(LibrisMortis)
(16th)Avascular Mass(Spc)
(20th)Astral Projection


Feat Ideas:
Fell Animate (for Kelgore's Grave Mist)
Metamagic Spell Trigger(Fell Animate + cheap wands)
Flyby Attack (Humanoid Shape + Fear Aura + Frightful Presence + [Entangling]Slow Breath)
Improved Initiative
Ability Focus(Breath Weapon)
Imperious Command (I might have enough fear stuff already...)
Spell Penetration & Greater

Looking for stuff to abuse Naberius with, Corrupt Arcana comes to mind for more spells...

Also... Astaroth + Corpsecrafting feats?

Any action economy tips, given the insane amount of options?
comments/criticism are welcome, I'll check back tomorrow and re-evaluate what's here, not sure where I want to specialize
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Offline Rejakor

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 10:41:40 AM »
If the game warrants it, multistacking entangling exhalation to shut down your breath weapon for X turns to make them get covered in clinging fire that burns for X turns is pretty sweet.  It turns off your DFA breath weapon action for a while and lets you do other stuff, too.  I used a dragonborn breath as a fire and forget day long Damage Over Time, 'Thousand-Years-Burning Curse' in a campaign once, it wasn't overpowered, was mostly thematic and interesting.

Otherwise the usual.  Have you considered factotum?  That helps with action economy.  Although with this gestalt you'd really want to go beguiler (or warmage or wu jen or shugenja)/factotum/DN to use it best.

You have a bunch of classes there that want you to melee.  If you used totemist or incarnate, it would help even more with melee, and you could bind combat vestiges and use combat invocations and go murder things in melee.  Even a DN could melee with savnok bound and an entangling exhalation on the enemy to make them shit.

Offline dman11235

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 12:40:54 PM »
I second the Factotum.  I mean, I'm worried that you're not going to have the actions to see all of your classes working, that's why I suggested the Incarnate.  You can load up on a bunch of passive abilities (things that just buff your numbers, grant immunities, that sort of thing), and have your other class(es) do the active work.  Binder for the same reason.  DFA tends to focus on active abilities, so that's what I'd assume your focus would be in the character.  DN can do either passive or active though, so I guess it's fine.

I suppose that's the thing with gestalt.  You take one class that provides the active abilities, as in, the abilities you use during battle, and then the other path you take up a class that augments that and provides passive abilities, that are always up and don't take time to activate in combat.
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 01:25:19 PM »
Factotum/Beguiler would be my starting point with something like this as Factotum's actions are really really good in gestalt and beguilers have a powerful and flexible spell list.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 01:30:52 PM by Rebel7284 »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 03:06:03 PM »
Factotum/Beguiler would be my starting point with something like this as Factotum's actions are really really good in gestalt and beguilers have a powerful and flexible spell list.

Beguiler//Factotum//Warblade for massive Int synergy.  Start off as a Tiefling and you can do some fun Alter Self shenanigans, plus have an Int boost.  It's kind of a shame there don't seem to be any real Magical Beast options for players, otherwise Hydra use would be fun with Factotum.

Still, a Binder//DFA//DN looks like good synergy with Cha and Con.  If you want some extra actions then Dvati twins might work.  They have to cast a spell together, but can move and attack independently.  You might be able to do a DFA's invocations separately.  If it wasn't for the huge LA, Vestigial Twin from DMG II pg 160 might be an option.  WotC really needs to fix the whole LA/CR discrepancy problem.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 03:33:51 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 03:18:19 PM »
Factotum/Beguiler would be my starting point with something like this as Factotum's actions are really really good in gestalt and beguilers have a powerful and flexible spell list.

Beguiler//Factotum//Warblade for massive Int synergy.  Start off as a Tiefling and you can do some fun Alter Self shenanigans, plus have an Int boost.  It's kind of a shame there don't seem to be any real Magical Beast options for players, otherwise Hydra use would be fun with Factotum.

Wow, what a chassis and set of abilities there...
D12HD, all good saves, 6+Int Skill points, great spell and maneuver progression, multiple actions, etc, etc.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 04:58:29 PM »
// Wilder 20
limited set of higher powers happening at any given time
yet still has decent access , needs one or two feats
more like tasty filler , without massing too many options
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 11:52:10 PM »
Hrm, Wilder is tempting...

Trying to stick with Cha/Con b/c it will be a change of pace for me as I usually go with Int or Wis SAD characters.

The other two party members will likely be Factotum//Beguiler//Duskblade and a
 (WS)Ranger//Psychic Warrior//Monk

I keep saying ToB, but whatever... I guess they don't want to read it.

For feats I'll try to go the flyby route, qualifying w/humanoid shapes so I can hit stuff with fear auras and a breath weapon or Vestige ability on the way past.

So multiple DR, diplomacy and breath weapon should mop up in the early game
then I'll use primarily flying tactics until I get some (incorporeal)undead, which should carry me through until Zceryl..
EDIT: I'll be able to max 6 skills so I guess : Concentration, Spot, Listen, Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy
Will take ignore special requirements early, so I don't have to worry about that...
I think it has come up before, but fell animate + invisible spell = invisible undead?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 12:20:29 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Offline ZombieGirl

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 10:47:44 PM »
I also enjoy the binder/incarnate combo :) (although i used totemist for the totem slot) but yeah, binding and melding mix so perfectly, they were made for eachother <3 :D

Offline Surreal

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 01:49:10 PM »
Bard isn't too shabby either. With the right spells and feats you can set up your music on autopilot and use your actions for everything else.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 04:28:55 PM »
quartet ...  :drums :violin :whistle :joystick


DJ Surreal out front ... awaken_d_m_Golem "spinning" the tunes (I'm on autopilot, eh?).

boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-


(8 hours later)


boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Surreal

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 05:03:53 PM »
I don't remember the details, but you can pawn off various bard/spell effects with durations of concentration onto a familiar or a holding spell. If your minions are undead or constructs, then they can hold that indefinitely.

Offline dman11235

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 10:12:15 PM »
THere are spells and feats that let you concentrate with your Familiar, and then Sonorous Hum I believe it's called concentrates on a spell for you.  If you can get epic feats, I know there's a feat that lets you concetrate on an additional spell.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Triple Gestalt Binder // DFA //??
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 11:45:11 PM »
quartet ...  :drums :violin :whistle :joystick


DJ Surreal out front ... awaken_d_m_Golem "spinning" the tunes (I'm on autopilot, eh?).

boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-


(8 hours later)


boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-boom-chik-
LMFAO@ that quartet, who plays the joystick?
Anyway, if I went bard I would probably drop DN then I guess DFI would be flavorful, but then no minions unless I took obtain familiar or something
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