Author Topic: The Marvelous Marshal Handbook Discussion (Read 19634 times)

SleepyShadow · « **on:** February 19, 2012, 06:37:22 PM »

Please let me know if there are any thoughts, tips, tricks, builds, or other random tidbits of information regarding the Marshal. Thanks

Solo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2012, 06:53:26 PM »

Again, you need to make that picture smaller.

Now, as for content, you need to mention the Dragon Shaman draconic auras, as well as the Knowledge Devotion feat so you can productively use all those knowledge skills that you have access to!

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2012, 07:25:54 PM »

I was planning on talking about the dragon shaman auras. Why stop at only two auras?

I hadn't actually thought about knowledge devotion. Thank you for the idea.

Solo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2012, 07:32:25 PM »

Dragon Devotee from Races of the Dragon offers several interesting things for a Marshal: 3 ability score increases (the first being CHA, followed by CON and then STR) two bonus feats, and two effective sorcerer levels, even if you had none before. There might be other things, but I forget.

From then on, you can be a gish and qualify for gishy prestige classes like Abjurant Champion.

Also, consider mentioning the Dark Speech, Fey Heritage and Infernal Heritage feats. I think they all grant useful options.

Thurbane · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2012, 08:20:30 PM »

Some Marshal tips off the top of my head -
* Trade a couple of your major auras for Draconic Auras, as per Dragon Magic. Then, you can take the Double Draconic Aura feat at 12th, and have three auras active at once (2 draconic, 1 minor).
* There's a couple of Marshal specific items in the MIC - Rearguard's Cape, and a couple of items in the magic item sets (name escapes me for the moment).
* For PrCs, there's only three that progress a Marshal's auras AFAIK: Mythic Examplar (CC); and both Uncanny Trickster (CS) and Legacy Champion (WoL) can progress the class features of any class (2/3 and 7/10 respectively).
* Knowledge Devotion (CC) isn't bad for a Marshal, as they get all Knowledges as class skills.

Thurbane · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2012, 08:30:21 PM »

Also, for race, a couple of things to consider:
* If you're a spellscale, you could take the Dragonborn of Bahamut "template" to wipe out the CON penalty, and trade it for a DEX penalty (not as bad in heavy armor). It wipes out the Spellscales special racial abilities, but these don't do much for a Marshal anyway.
* Hellbred (spirit) is another LA+0 race that gives a CHA bonus.
* If LA buyoff option is allow, the following races get a CHA bonus: Aasimar and Catfolk are mentioned. LA+1: Dromite, Chaos Gnome, Air Mephling, Earth Mephling & Fire Mephling; LA+2: Drow, Gloaming, Irda, Karsite & Orog.

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2012, 09:39:01 PM »

Thanks a lot. I've already incorporated some of this into the handbook, and I'll be sure to use the rest when I get to the appropriate sections.

Solo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:03:52 PM »

I must stress again the necessity of replacing your picture with something smaller. Like this.

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:06:39 PM »

lol, I almost linked to that video clip in the Barbarian Marshal bit, but decided against it since it is definitely NSFW.

As for the picture, I'll just shrink the current one. My bad.

Solo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:09:29 PM »

I think you should add in pictures of inspirational marshals into the handbook at various points. Gunny would be delighted enough not to stick his boot completely up your ass.

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:18:22 PM »

I like that idea. More pictures would be excellent. I'll add Gunny, and see what else I can find

Stormbringer · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:33:13 AM »

A couple of things I would like to note: 1. The Marshal has Knowledge as a class skill. Not Knowledge (All. Taken seperately). Just Knowledge. Now personally, I think that it works like other classes with all Knowledges, but certain people may choose to interpret it as 'all knowledges in one skill', which is dumb, but I dunno.

2. Motivate Charisma is rediculous on a diplomancer. Or any Marshal, really. Double my charisma bonus to charisma based checks? Hell yeah! Sign me up. A half-elf marshal with Motivate Charisma, a high charisma mod, and whatever that half-elf specific feat from Races of Destiny is that lets you roll twice for Gather Information and Diplomacy, would make an obscene diplomancer.

3. Don't blanket rule out half-orcs. The Desert Half Orc from Unearthed Arcana does not have a charisma hit, and from there you could pick up Leadership, Might Makes Right, Extra Followers, and take 5 (or less, if you want) levels of Orchish Warlord to have an ASSLOAD of followers and a fairly decent army. In addition, there are quite a few sources of Intimidate bonuses for half-orcs. Take the first level of the Half-Orc Paladin substitution level to get Monstrous Mein, 3 levels of Half-Orc Paladin for Charisma synergy and more intimidate, then go marshal and take Motivate Charisma.

Jackinthegreen · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:48:42 AM »

Quote from: Thurbane on February 19, 2012, 08:30:21 PM

Also, for race, a couple of things to consider:
* If you're a spellscale, you could take the Dragonborn of Bahamut "template" to wipe out the CON penalty, and trade it for a DEX penalty (not as bad in heavy armor). It wipes out the Spellscales special racial abilities, but these don't do much for a Marshal anyway.
* Hellbred (spirit) is another LA+0 race that gives a CHA bonus.
* If LA buyoff option is allow, the following races get a CHA bonus: Aasimar and Catfolk are mentioned. LA+1: Dromite, Chaos Gnome, Air Mephling, Earth Mephling & Fire Mephling; LA+2: Drow, Gloaming, Irda, Karsite & Orog.

Speaking of +1 LA, the Draconic template is +1 and grants +2 Str, Con, and Cha.

Stormbringer · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2012, 05:20:14 AM »

Also, Bubs may or may not be relevant http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 02:03:29 PM »

Quote from: Stormbringer on February 21, 2012, 04:33:13 AM

3. Don't blanket rule out half-orcs. The Desert Half Orc from Unearthed Arcana does not have a charisma hit, and from there you could pick up Leadership, Might Makes Right, Extra Followers, and take 5 (or less, if you want) levels of Orchish Warlord to have an ASSLOAD of followers and a fairly decent army. In addition, there are quite a few sources of Intimidate bonuses for half-orcs. Take the first level of the Half-Orc Paladin substitution level to get Monstrous Mein, 3 levels of Half-Orc Paladin for Charisma synergy and more intimidate, then go marshal and take Motivate Charisma.

I had no idea desert half-orcs existed. The only variants of them I'd ever heard of was the water and the aquatic ones. Thanks for pointing this out.

snakeman830 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2012, 09:35:04 AM »

Quote from: Thurbane on February 19, 2012, 08:20:30 PM

Some Marshal tips off the top of my head -
* Trade a couple of your major auras for Draconic Auras, as per Dragon Magic. Then, you can take the Double Draconic Aura feat at 12th, and have three auras active at once (2 draconic, 1 minor).

There is a bit of contention here, since the draconic aura replaces your normal major aura and uses the same bonus, I've seen people argue that it's treated as a major aura if learned this way, meaning you can't quad-aura it up without burning feats on Draconic Aura.

I personally don't have an issue with it, but some folks do.

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:28:24 PM »

I would have to say that without the feats, you could only have the three auras, since it does say it replaces a major and uses the same bonus. Just my 2 cp though.

Amechra · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2012, 11:05:49 AM »

May I suggest LA +0 Feytouched for a race?

They get +2 Dex, -2 Con and +2 Cha, and the Fey type.

Dragonborn of Bahamut gives you just a nice, smooth, +2 to Cha and you are a Fey (Dragonblood).

StreamOfTheSky · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2012, 01:09:47 PM »

Umm... Motivate Stength makes the Art of War aura largely obsolete.
"Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks."

AoW is fine if your party does disarm and sunder. But you mention it for chain tripping and dungeon crashers (bull rush). These are strength checks. If no one's using disarm or sunder specifically (which should be the case for most parties), AoW is flipping pointless. I'd much rather also have the bonus on swim, jump, and climb checks and breaking and entering (doors, locks, whatever) checks. Oh, and over run. And defending against trip/bull rush/over run (AoW is only when attempting it yourself offensively). Yeah, Art of War sucks. Unfortunately. By name it should be the best aura.

SleepyShadow · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2012, 05:58:10 PM »

Quote from: StreamOfTheSky on March 04, 2012, 01:09:47 PM

Umm... Motivate Stength makes the Art of War aura largely obsolete.
"Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks."

AoW is fine if your party does disarm and sunder. But you mention it for chain tripping and dungeon crashers (bull rush). These are strength checks. If no one's using disarm or sunder specifically (which should be the case for most parties), AoW is flipping pointless. I'd much rather also have the bonus on swim, jump, and climb checks and breaking and entering (doors, locks, whatever) checks. Oh, and over run. And defending against trip/bull rush/over run (AoW is only when attempting it yourself offensively). Yeah, Art of War sucks. Unfortunately. By name it should be the best aura.

Sadly, you are correct. Why did they give the cool names to the bad abilities?

News:

Author Topic: The Marvelous Marshal Handbook Discussion (Read 19634 times)