Author Topic: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC  (Read 8837 times)

Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2012, 11:31:35 AM »
how bout leaving ac alone and attack w/ will saves.

They're expecting that. Last game everyone ran into an undead ent-type of boss and for every magical attack (made by a party consisting on 90% spellcasters) everyone had to make a will save or else, run away. In the end there was only 2 there: the druid (of course  :rolleyes ) and a fey sorcerer (iron will made all the difference).

So they're expecting another WILL SAVES NOW! kind of boss and they'll probably go to the table with tactics for that (nothing wrong with that, tho'). Best thing is to hit with melee and maybe after a few encounters, they'll be able to use that tactics :)

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 10:02:49 PM »
Better idea I think is to go with Rejakor's  suggestion, multiple foes that ping through his defenses, or around him while he blockades a few. Wolf pack tactics, where several enemies limit his mobility physically(say a pair flanking him), and then other high mobility enemies harry his allies.
+1.  I actually play a supermount character whose AC is actually kind of too high (45-50 at level 13), so I've given my DM a list of options to get around that.  I could post it if you're interested.  I like things like Emerald Razor and Wands of True Strike b/c they make me feel like my AC has a real effect -- the baddies are wasting actions, etc. so that even if I do get hit, I'm nerfing them.  I'm also quite good at taking hits, which also makes me ok with that tactic.

The other one, as others have noted, is the ganging up tactics.  If a swarm of baddies have to waste their actions to accumulate enough Aid Another actions to hit me, then I also feel pretty good about myself.  It lets the PC take damage, which is I take it part of the goals of this thread, but it also helps him feel awesome:  look, it took 15 of them working together to even scratch me!

Yep, it's like Roy, but not smart. 
Don't go out of your way to flame or bait other posters. I don't care about disagreements, swearing, or general lack of politeness, but this is a deliberate attempt to provoke someone.
I could be totally wrong, but was he referring to Roy from :Order of the Stick" or was it in response to something on the boards? 

Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 07:08:03 AM »
Better idea I think is to go with Rejakor's  suggestion, multiple foes that ping through his defenses, or around him while he blockades a few. Wolf pack tactics, where several enemies limit his mobility physically(say a pair flanking him), and then other high mobility enemies harry his allies.
+1.  I actually play a supermount character whose AC is actually kind of too high (45-50 at level 13), so I've given my DM a list of options to get around that.  I could post it if you're interested.  I like things like Emerald Razor and Wands of True Strike b/c they make me feel like my AC has a real effect -- the baddies are wasting actions, etc. so that even if I do get hit, I'm nerfing them.  I'm also quite good at taking hits, which also makes me ok with that tactic.

The other one, as others have noted, is the ganging up tactics.  If a swarm of baddies have to waste their actions to accumulate enough Aid Another actions to hit me, then I also feel pretty good about myself.  It lets the PC take damage, which is I take it part of the goals of this thread, but it also helps him feel awesome:  look, it took 15 of them working together to even scratch me!

I would appreciate that list :D please share

The tanker in the party has a AC of 34 at the 6th level, it's kinda impressive too (altho', his armor check penalty is -14)

Offline Rejakor

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 09:31:22 AM »
Heh, tanker.

AC 34?  That is not bad at all at level 6.  So what, +2 Mountain Plate and a +2 Greatshield, ammie of natural armour +1, ring of protection +1, and dex +1?

That number can get even higher with LA races, there's a LA +1 race with +8 Natural Armour out there.  Defending Armour and shield spikes is more of a high level trick, thanks to greater magic weapon not scaling well at low levels.  He could conceivably be combat expertising, though, for more.

For characters who have a 'no, fuck you' like a sorcerer I had once who had bound spirits with readied actions to counter enemy attacks in various ways or high AC/attack negating characters (Sidestep + Robilar's Gambit, say), the best thing is pitting them against NPCs who are surprised by their defences and then start trying to find a way around them.  So the high dex swordsage/swashbuckler goes miss/miss/miss against a knight character, backs off, and then comes in again with a trip/disarm/tumble past combo, using circle throw as he goes to toss the knight down some stairs.  Or in a more anime style, a powerful npc trying a multitude of different attack forms and spells to break a high tier character's defences and being delighted as he finds that his opponent can handle each new type of attack.

Good fun is also a mirrormatch with these kinds of characters.  For example, a armoured blahblahhonourblah knight meets a caricature of themselves (loud, overdramatized version of their own attitudes) with a similarly insane AC and they smash away at each other hilariously futilely.  Bonus points if the caricature version uses some Taunt style ability the armoured tank uses on enemy monsters on the tank.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 11:38:03 AM »
Feats
  • Vexing and Adaptable Flanker -- even better when combined with reach
  • Acrobatic Strike
  • Improved Aid -- it's a feat, from OA or Rokugan, I think, Aid Another becomes +4
  • Feinting, depending on the character in question

Spells
  • Haste
  • True Strike
  • Prayer
  • Heroism
  • Recitation
  • Bite of X
  • Ice Shield -- good potential defense, depending on the characters' attack routine, I have a lot of natural attacks, so this ends up being a bit of a boon

As I alluded to in an earlier post, I like the ones where they gang up on the tank.  Don't be afraid to do it, provided the tank can handle it a bit (especially if he's got some party support).  It makes a tank player feel good about doing their job, and they're just forcing you to do so through AC.