About leap attack and skills (new questions at the bottom)

[Dwarfi]

Hello again.

I have some questions again:

1. LEAP ATTACK:
I want to check if this is correct:

Situation: I have a dwarf in full plate (-6penalty) 5penalty for MW
Lv8:
Str mod: +4 / 10 Ranks in Jump


Strmod(4)+ Skill(10) - ACP(5) -6(speed)= 3 Jump skill[/u]

When I charge 20 ft (4squares) in a charge and then jump 10ft (2squares)
I should have a 1d20+3 skill with a DC 10 ?

DC20 when I jump 10 ft without the 20ft charge before.

Then I have a homebrew feat that raises my str by 6 and a bonus on str checks.
- A jump check is no str check isnt it ?
With this bonus I simply raise my skill by 3 points to 6.

---------------

2.) About skills:
I have a fighter and want to get the mage slayer feat.
So I need 2 ranks in spellcraft. (Right now -1)
Can I just buy a +3 skill item for 900GP (3x3x100) and be done with it? Or are skill boni from items treated the same way  like learning them usuallly? 2 points for 1 rank as it is not listed as a fighter skill?

3.) Craft:
Never used that before. I thought about a dwarf with a craft armor/shield skill.
But it seams to be a really hard thing to pull off. Even an armor with no actual AC bonus has a DC of 10. If I wanted to make a basic full plate armor on an early level, that would have a DC18 ????
Not to mention that it takes an eternity to do it. So I would have to wait until I have at least 10ranks in crafting before I can realistically start craftinig something at all?

What are your thoughts about craft armor/ weapon skills? Are they of any real use or just a waste of skill points.
Where are the needed tools listed and the cost?

Thanks again for the great help.

[SorO_Lost]

1.
On your Jump check, you only get a bonus based on your speed. Running don't change you're spell, only how far you can move per round.

That being said, the DC is pretty trivial. First off, that armor better be Masterwork by now which means it's ACP is -5 not -6. You should be able to afford a Masterwork Tool of Jump for another +2 bonus as well. Since you probably plan to use Leap Attack a lot, Boots of Striding and Springing are a wise investment for you and at 5.5k it's only 1/5 your total budget.
That's: +16 = +4 (str) + 10 (ranks) + 2 (circumstantial) + 5 (competence) + -5 (acp), or you can skip the running start part with a roll of 4 or higher.

If you cannot afford the boots for some reason. the DMGII offers a Hellforged template to apply to your armor for 1k which would give.
+6 = +4 (str) + 10 (ranks) + 2 (circumstantial) + -4 (acp) + -6 (speed)

Your houseruled feat changes this to a +15 bonus (+6 str for +3, then further +6 on str related checks) so don't worry too much.

2.
Mageslayer wants 2 ranks in Spellcraft, not a +2 bonus with Spellcraft checks. You'll have to invest skill points.

3.
I'd honestly forgo picking up ranks in Craft. It sounds like you are a Dwarven Fighter which is only a base of 2 skill points per level. If you dumped Int you have 16 points to invest and invested 10 in Jump and 4 in Spellcraft, you have enough left over to gain two ranks in Craft. It's not much.

[Dwarfi]

Thanks again.
Damn, then I have a 1d20+3 jump ???
Thats weak - I definately need those boots, a MW tool and a mithrall armor. ^^

Right now our group is really short on money. My total right now is ~4500GP and thats it.
A mitrhall armor would be nice too, but thats out of question at the moment, if we dont find an enemy wearing one. ^^°

The question on the craft check was more related to a planning on a crusader build. Which has 4 skill points each lv.
(intimidate/Diplomacy/?/ ?)
I just want to get a better idea of the craft skill and if its worth it or not. I thought it would make a mithrall full plate a lot cheaper but that seams to be rather difficult to do. Not to mention the needed time.

EDIT: The craft skill seems to be pretty much NOT worth it after what I read so far.
Needs too much skillpoints and takes way too long. Thats a point for the 5th editions' to-do-list.

[Dwarfi]

A haste spell increases my land speed by 30.

That would give me a 50ft speed (+8 speed bonus for jump checks)
Whith that I would have a DC20+17

[Kremti]

A haste spell increases my land speed by 30.

That would give me a 50ft speed (+8 speed bonus for jump checks)
Whith that I would have a DC20+17

Actually, it's 40ft speed (Quote from Haste Spell "...increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement...)

And yes, crafting items are almost *never* worth it unless
A) You are level 1, really strapped on the cash, and your DM gave you tons of crafting time, say, "You can assume to have it crafted before the game started" or something.
B) be able to magically/psionically do it.

-K

[Tr011]

There's a good Bracer item in MiC (useful for anyone with power attack) that adds +2 to strength-based skill checks IIRC. That, and a MW tool add up for 1d20+7. Make the MW tool (i.e. ur boots) a magic item with competence bonus to jump (2*2*100=400) for a total of 1d20+9.

[Dwarfi]

Ah, overlooked that part in the haste spell.

I think the boots would be the most effective way to increase my skill.
The +10 movement removes the -6 speed penalty and it adds +5 jump skill on top of it.
So I would end up with a 1D20+14 check and extra movement.
+2 if I spent the 50 GP for a MW tool.

Maybe someone is willing to lend me some money if I dont get enough together until we come to town again. ^^

[Rejakor]

Yeah, boots of striding and springing all the way.  Ask the DM if he can maybe put it in treasure if he doesn't roll treasure, or try to steer the party towards a decent magic mart (boots of striding and springing are low cost, DMG, and high usefulness - it's likely even a small city or highly magical town would have a couple of pairs you could hunt down, even if you have to negotiate with a tumbler to get them or something).  Borrow money from your party if you don't have enough, they really want you reliably hitting that DC.

In-character, your dwarf has in his mind developed this awesome combat style.  He just needs to be able to jump higher to pull it off.  Thus - he is determined to find a way to jump higher.  Try pole-vaulting.  Have the elf throw you.  Climb up on top of a ledge and jump on enemies.  After all of that pronounce that it's just not working, that you need to actually properly jump, and seek out magical assistance.

[Jackinthegreen]

Have the elf throw the dwarf?  That won't be awkward at all.  Remember Lord of the Rings?

Gimli:  "Toss me."
Aragorn: "?"
Gimli, annoyed: "I cannot make the distance, you have to toss me!"
Aragorn grabs Gimli before being interrupted for a second.
Gimli, pleadingly "Don't tell the elf..."
Aragorn, amused: "You have my word."

Epic battle ensues.

[Rejakor]

/starts the war of the beard

have the wizard cast expeditious retreat on you.  Jump, if that's not personal only.

Ride a mount and jump off it at the last moment screaming 'death from above'.

Ride the barbarian and jump off him at the last moment screaming 'death from above'.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Can you get 5 tumble ranks?  Jump and tumble are synergies to each other, that's another easy +2.

[Tr011]

Oh oh oh.
Here we go: There's an ACF for ANY class with the ride class skill, to replace it with tumble in the Cityscape Web Enhancement. Tumbling is really nice anyways.

[Dwarfi]

What a nice feedback.
I especially like to spin some rpg elements around it. ^^
Though I doubt the elf will be of much help, as I through some mud into his face XD

Tumble: I am not entirely sure what it does. I think I can move slower without provoking Aoos and reducing fall damage.
5Tumble should grant me an AC Bonus and a jump bonus if I am not mistaken.
And jump grants a+2 tumble check bonus

Too bad that I am very short on skill points - only 2 each Level.
That said, I am better off, with putting the points directly into jump.

[weenog]

Bah, if your working relationship is strong enough, throwing mud in his face is nothing.  My last party, two members set each other on fire, repeatedly, and on purpose, and they still had each other's backs every time it counted.  One setting the other's girlfriend on fire, that strained things for a while, but they got over it.

[Tr011]

Tumble: If you got 5 ranks, you get a bonus to AC whenever you fight defensively, use the total defense action or use combat expertise (since it's arguably a better version of defensive fighting).
You get +2 to jump.
You get +2 from jump.
You get your ACP to tumble.
You can use a DC 15 tumble to reduce falling damage by 10 ft.
You can use a DC 15+(2 per additional enemy) tumble check to pass an opponent without getting an AoO. This is the major use of tumble and there will be the time when you got less HP than your opponent deals damage with one hit. You have to get out of his reach or he kills you next round. Either he misses (not likely) or you tumble away. That's why every character should take at least one rank into tumble: to get a chance to succeed.
There are also many uses of tumble with higher DCs, i.e. walk through an opponent's space without provoking AoOs, standing up as a free action or making 10ft. steps. Or even provoke no AoOs on a charge.

[Dwarfi]

Hmm... I get tumble from my preC (+2Dex bonus and then +2 skill points would be possible+ 4 bonus from jump). So I could put some points in there instead of jump and hope that I get the boots +tool quickly to solve that problem. I get a haste effect more or less regularly through our caster.

I also plan to put a levitate/ waterwalking or breath underwater spell on my stuff. Or a simple teleporter. I remember teleporter boots from the MIC for 2k. That had 4 or five charges on them. My swim skill is somewhere around 11 now,  which makes a 1 wearing  +1 full plate. T_T

It feels as if it is really hard for a fighter to use any skill at all.
There is no mentionable con- skills and the str based skills get a heavy penalty for heavy armor. --°

[Tr011]

One more reason why barbarians rock: Higher Strength and lower ACP xD
You should check if you can lower the ACP of your armor. And make sure to get some strength-boosts. You can even get a cloak that grants you Rage 1/day.

[Dwarfi]

Well, barb already have a lower ACP because they dont wear full plate (usually) or is there a feat/skill that reduces it ? I dont remember the barb describtions. ^^

A mithrall armor would be sweet, but if we dont plunder a dragons treasure or something like that I doubt that we just get one ^^ And the ~11k are nowhere close to payable. T_T

Damn! Even tumble gets ACP!? My next character will be a crusader with diplomacy skills, thats for sure XD

[Tr011]

Barbarians get class features that are bound to light or medium armor, and they lower their AC, so AC usually gets completly dumped by a Barbarian. This means, they get no ACP at all xD
Maybe you check out some armor modifications, in the Handbook Index are some handy links for that IIRC. I'm sure you can improve your armor to get less ACP for the same AC.

[Dwarfi]

Indeed there are 1 or 2 modifications that are interesting.

Masterwork( Iguess these have to be chosen when you make them)

    Masterwork: 1 better ACP, +150 gp, Player's Handbook p126
    Item of Renown: 2 better ACP, +300 gp, War of the Lance p23
    Item of Fame: 3 better ACP, +450 gp, War of the Lance p23
    Item of Glory: 4 better ACP, +600 gp, War of the Lance p23
    Item of Legend: 5 better ACP, +750 gp, War of the Lance p23

If I get enough money for a mithrall armor, I can as well spend 300 more to remove the last 2 ACP.
Or maybe using something else then a fullplate.

I have the wish to make an errata on dwarf racials and give them a reduced ACP for heavy armor. ^^°