Hypothesizing... Arcane Dissertation?

[Drammor]

Since a master's degree requires a thesis, and a doctorate requires a dissertation, then it would make sense to me if Arcane Dissertation were a feat that required both Collegiate Wizard and Arcane Thesis. It would be something you could take multiple times, each time applying it to a different spell for which you already have Arcane Thesis.

But what would it do? Just more metamagic reduction, or something more?

This question may or may not have anything to do with a Spell Expertise based PrC I've been working on.

[sirpercival]

Supernatural ability 1/day?

[SneeR]

Supernatural ability 1/day?

Already a feat that does that after taking Silent Spell and Still Spell, but 3/day instead.

What if the feat had you choose a certain spell and a certain metamagic feat and apply that metamagic feat for free to that spell 1/day?

[Agita]

This doesn't feel like a question about gaming or about the system to me in that it's more a discussion of an idea, so I'm moving it to When Inspiration strikes instead. Let me know if you think it should go elsewhere.

On the actual subject, one could possibly crib from Pathfinder's Spell Perfection feat, only less hilariously absurd.

[Halinn]

1/day Sudden Metamagic any one known metamagic? It's good with persist and such, but it's just one spell at a heavy feat tax. Set the requirements high enough, and that shouldn't be a concern.

[radionausea]

Off topic somewhat but to me a dissertation is undergraduate and masters and then you write a doctoral thesis...

[Drammor]

This doesn't feel like a question about gaming or about the system to me in that it's more a discussion of an idea, so I'm moving it to When Inspiration strikes instead. Let me know if you think it should go elsewhere.

On the actual subject, one could possibly crib from Pathfinder's Spell Perfection feat, only less hilariously absurd.

Yeah, Ask a Question didn't feel quite right to me either, but I didn't really know where it should go. Good choice, though.

What's so absurd about Spell Perfection?

1/day Sudden Metamagic any one known metamagic? It's good with persist and such, but it's just one spell at a heavy feat tax. Set the requirements high enough, and that shouldn't be a concern.

Were it to do that, and considering the feat tax, 3/day may even be appropriate... but I will hold out a bit longer for other ideas.

Off topic somewhat but to me a dissertation is undergraduate and masters and then you write a doctoral thesis...

Yeah, it seems there is some disagreement on the meaning of each term. Do you have a suggestion for a better name?


It looks like the ideas here are leaning in the direction of more metamagic providence...

What if it lowered the chosen spell's level by one for the caster (minimum 0)? That is to say... if a character took Spell Dissertation (Shout), then to them, Shout would be a 3rd level spell. The feat could also specifically state that for the adjudication of minor globe of invulnerability and similar effects, it still counts as a 4th level spell (unless modified by other effects).

[littha]

What's so absurd about Spell Perfection?

Made me spit my tea all over my keyboard...

It gives free metamagic and doubles you bonuses from feats... what is not absurd about it?

[Drammor]

Made me spit my tea all over my keyboard...

It gives free metamagic and doubles you bonuses from feats... what is not absurd about it?

I thought that was it; I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a particular connotation that would have sent it further over the edge.

Edit: If done properly, you can put your keyboard in the dishwasher without ruining it. That should help...

[dither]

Consider the effects of the two feats.

Collegiate Wizard
Receive a +2 bonus to Knowledge (arcana) checks.
Begin play with 3 additional 1st-level spells.
Receive 2 extra spells per wizard level.

(Essentially doubles the base number of spells you start with, and doubles the base number of spells you gain at each increase of character level. This is great for any wizard because it gives them a huge variety of spell options.)

Arcane Thesis
Choose one arcane spell you can cast.
Receive a +2 bonus to caster level when you cast it.
When you apply meta-magic to the chosen spell, reduce the level/slot increase by one.

(Applies powerful benefits to a single spell.)

My thought is that if you took Collegiate Wizard at 1st level, and Arcane Thesis at 6th, perhaps "Arcane Dissertation" should be available at 10th or 12th level? (I think 13 or 15 ranks in a skill is a pretty normal prerequisite.) Perhaps your knowledge of the spell provides some synergy bonus to other spells of the same school or subschool? Maybe throw in an additional benefit if your character specialized?

Maybe "Dissertation" is an effect that applies to meta-magic instead of a spell? Sort of like, your character has learned all they can about a particular spell, which in turn grants them a greater understanding of magic itself? I don't think I'd use it to reduce the level that meta-magic tends to add, but some other benefit that's largely numerical. Maybe boosting the caster level of all spells you apply a particular meta-magic feat to?

"Choose one metamagic feat you know. When you apply the effects of the feat to a spell you cast..."

[Quillwraith]

Arcane Thesis is more specific; it only applies to one spell.
Arcane Dissertation could be even more so, and have one spell/metamagic combination it applies to.
Example(probably broken):

Arcane dissertation:
Prerequisites: Arcane Thesis, Knowledge(arcana) 15 ranks.
Choose one spell you know and one metamagic feat you have. The spell must not be able to duplicate the effects of other spells, and the metamagic feat must not increase the level of feats it is applied to by more than 2(before effects such as Arcane thesis).
Whenever you cast the chosen spell, the chosen metamagic feat is automatically applied to it, without increasing the spell's level.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each additional time you take this feat, you may change the chosen metamagic to one with a spell level adjustment more than 1+ the number of times you have taken this feat.

[Amadi]

Essentially, Collegiate Wizard is about being better at learning stuff. Having decent study habits, and so on.

Arcane Thesis is taking something that has already been invented (The spell.), researching it to understand how it works, and the ability to apply metamagic to it is applying that knowledge. The benefits of the spell are not the research that you made; They're you applying that research in practice.

Shouldn't Arcane Dissertation then require research of a new spell, and then wouldn't it grant benefits when using that researched spell?