Must a crusader have a god?

[weenog]

ToB mentions crusaders of a cause/alignment at some points, but also seems to assume every crusader has a patron deity.  Which is it?  Can you be a godless crusader of a sufficiently weighty general principle, such as war, justice, or the advancement of a race?

[cvar]

Since I just read this, no they don't.  The only restriction is that they can't be neutral.  Page 8/9 of the ToB if you can get your hands on a copy.  Gods are mentioned in the fluff text, but not in any rules about the class.

[Dwarfi]

They dont have to, but it might add someting to the character. In case the crusader wants to go cleric at some point it might be more convincing if he already praised a deity beforehand and didnt start to do it from one moment to another.

[Ziltoid]

They dont have to, but it might add someting to the character. In case the crusader wants to go cleric at some point it might be more convincing if he already praised a deity beforehand and didnt start to do it from one moment to another.

You know Clerics don't have to worship a specific deity either, right?

[Dwarfi]

Well, ok, they dont have to either. You just have to pick one or two for your domain. Usually your character is supposed to worship or praise them in some way - at least give a small offering, ring a bell or just make a short prayer at their wayshrines. ^^°. Otherwise that would be pretty empty roleplay, at least in my oppinion.
If you pick a deity have some relation to it, love him, praise him, hate him, curse him or whatever comes to your mind. ^^

[Ziltoid]

Well, ok, they dont have to either. You just have to pick one or two for your domain. Usually your character is supposed to worship or praise them in some way - at least give a small offering, ring a bell or just make a short prayer at their wayshrines. ^^°. Otherwise that would be pretty empty roleplay, at least in my oppinion.

I can assure you there are plenty of ways to play a Cleric that doens't worship a deity and that aren't devoid of RP, it only takes a little bit of creativity

[Kajhera]

Well, ok, they dont have to either. You just have to pick one or two for your domain. Usually your character is supposed to worship or praise them in some way - at least give a small offering, ring a bell or just make a short prayer at their wayshrines. ^^°. Otherwise that would be pretty empty roleplay, at least in my oppinion.

I can assure you there are plenty of ways to play a Cleric that doens't worship a deity and that aren't devoid of RP, it only takes a little bit of creativity

Trying to be devout without a god hits a little too close to home for me...consequently I'll second this assurance, despite generally snagging a god for my clerics. Thinking of trying out a transhumanist though. Hey, if the Warforged can build their god...

Found that clerics of a concept are more likely to be like ardents, flavorwise, than priests of an organized religion. Crusaders aren't supposed to be priests of an organized religion in the first place of course so no worries. 

Gods are very, very present in the D&D world. Most people have 'em, not just crusaders. Crusaders are more likely to be affiliated strongly with a specific one but it's not exactly required.

[weenog]

I wouldn't even mind having a god for the crusader I'm cooking up, I just can't seem to find one that fits.  Would need to be someone that's compatible with a human, CN-aligned follower, appreciates fighting (not murder) for its own sake, and either is not picky about how that fighting is conducted, or appreciates a Dex-heavy character that fights primarily with a crossbow.  Kord would be ideal if not for the whole brawler thing.

I don't really want to focus on the good/evil thing this time around.  Just got done with a quasi-divine character, good enough to annoy me to play.  Rather just be a mercenary that fights cause fighting's fun, but I want the crusader abilities.

[Ziltoid]

or appreciates a Dex-heavy character that fights primarily with a crossbow.

Cooking something up with Aptitude?

[weenog]

or appreciates a Dex-heavy character that fights primarily with a crossbow.

Cooking something up with Aptitude?

Yes, modified TF2 heavy weapons guy setup that does work by our required starting ECL of 6, but can't fit in the tank or the melee bruiser abilities by that point.

[Kajhera]

Joramy?

Oh, how about Phaulkon, Kord's archer father?

[weenog]

I considered and rejected Joramy, though she might wind up back on the table if we don't have any deliberately annoying PCs this time around (don't really see "fiery temper" and "never back down from a struggle" working well with a trolling PC that can't survive one round of my damage output).

What is the source for Phaulkon?

[Kajhera]

For 3e, apparently the 'Living Greyhawk Gazetteer'.

[Rejakor]

You don't need to even be good/evil to be a crusader.  You just need to believe in something.  'That a man must make his own path' is a belief.  As is 'fighting is fun'.  You can take it to extreme, anime-esque lengths in dramatic scenes and give your life for the cause of 'fighting is fun'.  It's all in how you play it.

Honestly I find characters who get powers from the gods horrible to play.  If your character is religious, sure, but specifically HAS to be religious? ugh.

[Halinn]

'That a man must make his own path' is a belief.

Yours is the drill that will pierce the heavens.

[weenog]

You don't need to even be good/evil to be a crusader.

Oh, I know.  It's just that while I don't mind having a CG or CE patron as a CN, it would be awkward at best to have one that puts goodness (or evilness) first and everything else second, since I don't want to play holy joe again, and I'd rather leave the option open to be pragmatic over psychopathic.

Erythnul is amusing right up until it makes more sense not to kill and destroy everything you can get away with.

[Rejakor]

Write a god.

If it's interesting, most DMs will go 'okay'.

Include where it's worshiped (X mountain range is the stronghold of the faith) who the god is the patron of (since DnD has a rome-like pantheon - you worship all the gods and have one specific patron) (wrestlers, brawlers, happy go lucky drunks, small animals) etc so the DM has some hooks to use.

Honestly it's better than using some one size doesn't fit anyone greyhawk god.

EDIT:  And there's a couple of tactical war gods out there.. even if you get a bit caught up, they'd probably have you if you want to be pragmatic over berserking.

[weenog]

I've done the custom deity thing before, but I don't really have the time right now, nor do I think this DM wants to bother inserting one.  I'll just find out what the others are doing, and decide then.  Joramy if we don't have any pest PCs that will intentionally provoke someone till they start swinging.  Otherwise, just be a crusader of war itself, vaguely similar to Naked Snake/Big Boss but with less discipline and without the whole supervillain thing.