Low tier game.

[Ziltoid]

Standard Curse is 1/day, lost if saved against, and Standard action.

That's bad. Is everything else the same?

I actually agree on it not working that way, but figured asking to make sure couldn´t hurt

As for the DFA, it´s all about battlefield control with the Entangling Exhalation feat and versatility through UMD

That doesn't sound that impressive. Is there more to the class than that or is that really all they do?

Mobility and versatility, the latter being somewhat dependant on UMD/Wand access
Oh, and they´re pretty durable, with Con as main stat and all that


As for HP, you say max at first and average after that, but average means gaining x.5 HP each level
What do we do with that .5?
In my experience it´s generally easier to go either 1/2 HD or 1/2 HD+1 at each level past first

Any thoughts on that?

[Tiltowait]

Say you are a D8 class with 14 Con. 10 + 6.5 per level * 7 = 55.5 total, rounds down to 55.

[Ziltoid]

Say you are a D8 class with 14 Con. 10 + 6.5 per level * 7 = 55.5 total, rounds down to 55.

Gotcha

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I actually agree on it not working that way, but figured asking to make sure couldn´t hurt

As for the DFA, it´s all about battlefield control with the Entangling Exhalation feat and versatility through UMD

That doesn't sound that impressive. Is there more to the class than that or is that really all they do?

they have some invocations, so they're kinda like a bfc warlock.  They can be really effective at low levels, but I think the power level peters out..
Whether they are tier 3 or 4 is debated, IIRC so if that's against the spirit of the game that's fine

[Ziltoid]

Tentative character sheet so far (WIP): http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=384205

[sirpercival]

Tilt, your list is out of date.  Here's a more complete listing.

6(3+3NPC): Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6), Truenamer (TM 198)

5(14+2NPC): Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Dungeon Magazine 100 256-257 githyanki section), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4(18+1NPC): Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)


Removing non-allowed sources leaves: Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind, Warrior, Samurai, Truenamer, Expert, Fighter, Healer, Knight, Lurk, Monk, Ninja, Paladin, Soulborn, Soulknife, Swashbuckler, Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman, Hexblade, Marshal, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Spellthief, Totemist, Warlock, and Warmage.

EDIT: I might consider playing a dungeoncrasher build... something like Goliath DCF 2/Lion-Totem Barb 1/Totemist 4.  With Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets), Sphinx Claws, Shock Trooper, and Knockback, I should be rocking.  Or, if LA buy-off is allowed, then Goliath  DCF 6/Totemist 2.

[InnaBinder]

Tilt, your list is out of date.  Here's a more complete listing.

6(3+3NPC): Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6), Truenamer (TM 198)

5(14+2NPC): Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Dungeon Magazine 100 256-257 githyanki section), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4(18+1NPC): Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)


Removing non-allowed sources leaves: Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind, Warrior, Samurai, Truenamer, Expert, Fighter, Healer, Knight, Lurk, Monk, Ninja, Paladin, Soulborn, Soulknife, Swashbuckler, Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman, Hexblade, Marshal, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Spellthief, Totemist, Warlock, and Warmage.

EDIT: I might consider playing a dungeoncrasher build... something like Goliath DCF 2/Lion-Totem Barb 1/Totemist 4.  With Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets), Sphinx Claws, Shock Trooper, and Knockback, I should be rocking.  Or, if LA buy-off is allowed, then Goliath  DCF 6/Totemist 2.

Ahem:

All classes and abilities of Tier 3 and higher are banned. That means no using feats or items to get martial adept maneuvers, soulmelds, and so forth

Emphasis mine.  Tiltowait may clarify the issue, but as it stands right now, soulmelds aren't allowed, though soulmeld classes are.

[sirpercival]

So... how is an incarnum class supposed to function without soulmelds?  How are the soulmelds tier 3 when the incarnum class is tier 4 or lower?  That makes absolutely no sense.  If you want to ban particular soulmelds based on "tier 3 abilities" (like blink shirt) then that's semi-understandable, even though Totemist is still tier 4 even though they have access to that meld.  But banning soulmelds as a whole is just dumb.

EDIT: Reading it again, it seems you can have soulmelds if you don't spend an item or a feat on it... but classes should be ok.  That would take away my ability to get Mauling Gauntlets (which is hardly tier 3 material), but whatevs.  I'm not convinced I want to play the game anyway (too much on my plate), so I'll hold off unless Tilt needs another player.

[Tiltowait]

I was under the impression at least one of the meld shaping classes was Tier 3. What I was trying to say there is that I expected the exchange to go something like this:

DM: I'm banning all the strong classes.
Player: What about these things that turn other classes into the strong classes?

And I was trying to cut that off preemptively. There's nothing stopping you from taking soulmelds, just from going against the spirit of the game by snatching up all the higher level abilities.

Where do these Mauling Gauntlets fit into this?

[sirpercival]

The give 2 * (essentia + 1) to strength checks (like bull rush & break down doors).  Note that at 8th level the max essentia is 2, so it's a +6 bonus.

[Tiltowait]

The give 2 * (essentia + 1) to strength checks (like bull rush & break down doors).  Note that at 8th level the max essentia is 2, so it's a +6 bonus.

I figured that they did something to help Dungeoncrashing and/or Pouncing. I was asking what classes naturally have access to that particular soulmeld and what tiers they were.

[sirpercival]

Soulborn (tier 5 or 6).

[Ziltoid]

Something I forgot to ask: do you enforce multiclass XP penalties, Tiltowait?

[Tiltowait]

Soulborn (tier 5 or 6).

Have at it then.

No multiclass penalties.

[sirpercival]

Rock on.  What's the deal with LA buyoff?  Also, is Dragon Mag or Compendium material available?

[InnaBinder]

May we use Psionic or Incarnum races, without the classes, for access to feats that don't replicate powers or soulmelds?

[Tiltowait]

Rock on.  What's the deal with LA buyoff?  Also, is Dragon Mag or Compendium material available?

No LA buyoff (and even if there were, that'd still make you start with 7 levels and not 8).

What 3.5 official WotC sources not intended for a specific campaign setting are those from?

What sort of feats are you talking about?

[InnaBinder]

Rock on.  What's the deal with LA buyoff?  Also, is Dragon Mag or Compendium material available?

No LA buyoff (and even if there were, that'd still make you start with 7 levels and not 8).

What 3.5 official WotC sources not intended for a specific campaign setting are those from?

What sort of feats are you talking about?

Psionic Shot, for instance.  Add a bit more pew to my pew-pew.

[Tiltowait]

Tentatively yes. What others were you thinking?

[Risada]

I want to throw my hat in, if there's still space.

Skimmed through the thread, and apparently there's a DFA and a Dungeoncrasher... anything else? I am thinking on a Warmage that uses Blistering Spell Metamagic (possibly some other MM) with Arcane Thesis (scratch this... forgot the guy will take a whole round to cast) or Warlock...

Edit: thinking on other options...