Fun finds thread V3.0

[Amechra]

They are on page 28-29 for the first PrC, and at about page 40 for the 2nd (I'm doing this off of memory, OK?)

Yeah something is better than nothing. It was late last night and I am Mr Meanpants. Dragon stuff really does need a page number if possible, it's a pain to find stuff at times

It's OK; I'll make sure that I list page number next time, since I know how annoying it is to try to hunt through the mags...

[Garryl]

Here's one straight from the SRD! Incense of Meditation lets you prepare all of your spells with a free Maximize for only 4900g. Divine casters only, but that's just a UMD away. Among other things, that means an extra -1 level on any Arcane Thesis spell. And, you know, free Maximize.

[Amechra]

Dear. God. That is nice.

Grab some, go into Wild Mage, take Mastery of Order and Chaos, and laugh as you get a free +3 CL and +3 DC.

If, of course, random CL and DC count as a variable, numeric effect. I would argue that they do, but eh, your call.

[ksbsnowowl]

If, of course, random CL and DC count as a variable, numeric effect. I would argue that they do, but eh, your call.

I highly doubt you could make a good argument for Maximize applying to the CL and DC on a Wild Mage.  For starters, that effect isn't a property of the spell, but rather you.  Secondly, read Maximize spell (from the PHB, not the SRD):

... Saving throws and opposed rolls (such as the one you make when you cast dispel magic) are not affected...

Saving Throws = Spell DC
Caster Level check on dispel magic is pretty darn close to just CL rolls in general.  You might squeak it by a DM, but I doubt it.

[Amechra]

Saving throws and spell DCs have about the same equivalency as attack rolls and AC.

They aren't the same thing at all.

So, in essence, that note has nothing to do with anything.

Also, I'll give you the CL one, but I think the DC one might work... the feat's text indicates that you are modifying the spell itself with the randomized DC.

[SorO_Lost]

So, in essence, that note has nothing to do with anything.

That bears repeating.

I highly doubt you could make a good argument for Maximize applying to the CL and DC on a Wild Mage.  For starters, that effect isn't a property of the spell, but rather you.

All Metamagic Feats modify the "spell its self", and thousands of Class Abilities due too, see also arcane spell failure chance makes spell it's self totally fail. What matters is Maximize Spell ONLY changes the spell's effects, not your Class Features (your own post), not your Feats (see empower&maximize), or anything of the like (FAQ pg91).

[Amechra]

Is there a hard rule on that anywhere?

Not that that isn't a convincing argument, but goddamnit, there should be a definite answer that doesn't involve splitting hairs with metamagic.

[SorO_Lost]

Is there a hard rule on that anywhere?

Not that that isn't a convincing argument, but goddamnit, there should be a definite answer that doesn't involve splitting hairs with metamagic.

Actually, Maximize covers this without splitting hairs. "All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized." Why on earth would you think a Class Feature would be affected by a Feat that only applies to Spells to begin with? You're not TML so sit down and think things through logically. Like: A modifies the caster level of Z, B modifies the save DC of Z, C changes variable outcomes of Z. Is there an interaction of C with A & B?

Also as mentioned before, the FAQ uses more words to tell you the same exact thing.

Do metamagic effects apply to creatures summoned by summoning spell? For example, does a monster summoned by a maximized summon monster spell have maximum hit points?
No. The metamagic effect applies only to the specific rules of the spell itself -- the spell’s range, its casting time, the variable number of creatures summoned, and so forth -- not to the monsters it brings.
For example, an extended summon monster I would double the duration that the monsters remain, but wouldn’t have any effect on the durations of the monsters’ special powers.

[Amechra]

Mastery of Order and Chaos is a feat, but yes, it seems that you are right.

Jolly good.

(What does TML stand for? I don't speak acronyms/abbreviations very well.)

[SorO_Lost]

Mastery of Order and Chaos is a feat, but yes, it seems that you are right.

Jolly good.

(What does TML stand for? I don't speak acronyms/abbreviations very well.)

TML is short for a forum poster, The_Mad_L-something, he is the one that it didn't matter what you wanted to build or what you were doing he went out of his way to tell you to play a Savage Ghost and apply Chain Spell to Unseen Hand's Class Feature to Full-Attack using Colossal++ weapons via Telekinesis because who cares after DR it sucks worse than most forms of Fireball. I think he wrote a handbook after losing an argument with me just to tweak public opinion or a least that's the story I'm going to stick to.

[Garryl]

TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.

[123456789blaaa]

TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.

Isn't he still around?

[Bozwevial]

TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.

Isn't he still around?

He hasn't been active since May.

[nijineko]

huh, i think i ported that handbook... if i did, and if there is such a glaring error still in it, let me know, and i'll add editorial text to clarify.

[Amechra]

Guys, I just found a pretty sweet feat for summoners.

Stalwart Planar Ally gives a creature that you summon from any plane that has a Planar Touchstone that you've attuned to a +4 to AC, +4 to all saves, and it doubles the effect's duration. If a creature just specifies a range of planes (like any good aligned plane), the effects apply to any creature that you summon that doesn't have any opposing alignment components.

This... is kinda rad, especially since the non-Planar Touchstone requirements are Cha 13 and Spellcraft 5.

It's in the Planar Handbook, for those of you who are curious.

[phaedrusxy]

Guys, I just found a pretty sweet feat for summoners.

Stalwart Planar Ally gives a creature that you summon from any plane that has a Planar Touchstone that you've attuned to a +4 to AC, +4 to all saves, and it doubles the effect's duration. If a creature just specifies a range of planes (like any good aligned plane), the effects apply to any creature that you summon that doesn't have any opposing alignment components.

This... is kinda rad, especially since the non-Planar Touchstone requirements are Cha 13 and Spellcraft 5.

It's in the Planar Handbook, for those of you who are curious.

Considering how awesome Planar Touchstone is as a feat anyway, this is pretty nice...

[SorO_Lost]

No kidding. How would you like a Cleric Domain power, and 3 times per vist cast spells from said Domain regardless of what class you are? Heck, pick a Domain with Planeshift and you can recharge it by your self. Instantly any Fighter has a set of extremely limited, but still frigging awesome, Cleric Spells to cast.

Or maybe you are a Cleric. Think you can make a DC 25 Balance check (hint, use spider walk)? If so, free 1/day Resurrection if you die assuming you keep recharging it. Bonus uber DR 1 too.

Too spell like? No biggy. If an opponent is Flat-Footed, how would you like to take a -5 penalty to Attack to get an extra attack per round? Wording is kind of like Snap Kick, so it applies on AoOs as well. Stacks with Snap Kick to, just pick up Roiler's Gambit and as possible combo attack someone three times in a row each and every time they try to attack you once. Man, I sure hope they didn't use a Full-Attack action...

Planar Touchstone is a fun find, deserving to be noted more than once.

[Amechra]

No kidding. How would you like a Cleric Domain power, and 3 6 times per vist cast spells from said Domain regardless of what class you are? Heck, pick a Domain with Planeshift and you can recharge it by your self. Instantly any Fighter has a set of extremely limited, but still frigging awesome, Cleric Spells to cast.

Or maybe you are a Cleric. Think you can make a DC 25 Balance check (hint, use spider walk)? If so, free 1 2 1/day Resurrection if you die assuming you keep recharging it. Bonus uber DR 1 too.

I fixed that for you; you did take this feat, right?

[nijineko]

from "shattered gates of slaughtergarde", mildly interesting:

* serene guardian:
-immune to fear (7th)
-no weekly limit equivalent to quivering palm, plus bonus effects. (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, open to almost any class)

* solar channeler:
-expend turn attempt to cast cure 'x' as swift, or at range. (1)
-stacks with turning source. (all)
-transform into a combat oriented solar. (5+)

* dark scholar:
-add +1CL to various schools and/or saves. (various)
-use divine scrolls as if cleric of your arcane caster level. (know:planes 18+ ranks)

* twisted lord:
-become genan shiranui, more or less, minus the claw gauntlet. (all)

[sirpercival]

Stolen from here:

In Underdark, there's a section on Magimorphic rock, and then the spell Stone Metamorphosis (clr/dru 4, instantaneous).

My favorite magimorphic rock is Sickstone, which illuminates out to 40 feet; any creature within the illumination must make a Fort save DC 15 every round or suffer 1d6 Con damage, and 1 Con damage on a successful save.

So, for 292gp, you can buy a bullseye lantern and pay a cleric to metamorphose your chunk of granite into sickstone.  Now you have a 40-foot cone of Con damage to carry around.