Fun finds thread V3.0

[SorO_Lost]

edit2: Ignoring the FAQ that Precocious Spellcaster can't be used for early qualification, Illumians can do this with just one flaw..

Except Precocious Apprentice contains it's own Spellcasting requirement, should you obtain the ability to Cast 2nd level Spells you lose the exception that allows you to cast the Spell.

The FAQ has their own way of explaining it, chance of != real ability.
PA has it's self reference, the internal requirement means it doesn't meet the requirement as part of it's 1st effect.
And RAW it's a Schrodinger's Cat, even if you claimed it did meet requirements using it's 1st effect it instantly loses it. It's never in the desired position when observed.

[zook1shoe]

Yeah, PA has a pretty strong line about losing the feat when you can cast 2nd level spells.

The FAQ just explains that the feat disqualifies early entry without going into loops.

Because, say you advance to 4th level of your build (Wu 1/eld 3) you then gain the ability to cast 2nd spells normally. This triggers the feats clause, meaning you now lose the reqs for eldritch knight and thus lose your spells. This un-triggers the clause, regaining your spells.

This basically will give you NOTHING for 1 feat and 3 levels (except a 2nd level spell, wo a way to cast it)

[McPoyo]

Not really. When you would lose the feat, you automatically self-qualify.

[Jackinthegreen]

McPoyo, are you saying that since the character has access to 2nd level spells through the prestige class, that the character still qualifies?

If so, note the rules in Complete Warrior:

(click to show/hide)

Meeting Class Requirements: It’s possible for a character
to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position
where the character no longer qualifi es to be a member of the
class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character
death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important
ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible
to advance farther in a prestige class.
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a
prestige class, he or she loses the benefi t of any class features
or other special abilities granted by the class. The character
retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as
any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses
that the class provided.

The character still need to meet the prerequisites to stay in the class, and losing them such that the character could no longer qualify except through the class's features means the character doesn't meet the prerequisites.

It's not like a Diablo 2 item that has a strength requirement and grants enough strength to keep itself up.

[McPoyo]

I fail to see why not, since if you have 2nd level spells from the PrC, you lose them from the feat, which means you don't qualify anymore, which means you no longer have second level spells from the class, and therefore your feat kicks back in, which means you no longer etc.

It's either an infinite loop of quantum qualification, like Dragon Disciple 10, or it works. Which one makes your game not grind to a halt? You don't lose the feat, you lose the benefit of acting like you have a second level spell from the feat.

"When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot,[/quote] Relevant part from the feat, italics mine.

[Sinfire Titan]

I fail to see why not, since if you have 2nd level spells from the PrC, you lose them from the feat, which means you don't qualify anymore, which means you no longer have second level spells from the class, and therefore your feat kicks back in, which means you no longer etc.

It's either an infinite loop of quantum qualification, like Dragon Disciple 10, or it works. Which one makes your game not grind to a halt? You don't lose the feat, you lose the benefit of acting like you have a second level spell from the feat.

"When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot,

Relevant part from the feat, italics mine.
[/quote]

Be careful with that. Creating paradoxes like that in 3.5 results in the character being turned into a Sphere of Annihilation.

[ksbsnowowl]

The best way to make this work is to be a precocious apprentice Focused Specialist.

The feat grants you a 2nd level spell slot.  The ACF immediately causes you to lose that slot, and gain two 2nd level spell slots of your specialization school.  You no longer have the spell slot to lose when the feat deactivates itself.

[JaronK]

Random fun find: Rain of Terror, from Dragon 348, is a Cleric 3 spell that causes frogs or snakes (or other things, your choice) to rain from the sky in a 100 foot emanation range around you for 1 minute per level.  It also gives bonuses to intimidate and such, but that's not what's important right now.

Half the creatures dropped by the spell survive.  That gives you huge numbers of small critters.  Combine with Persistent Consumptive Field and you can easily get your strength into the thousands... in addition to maxing out your caster level.  Yehaw!  Feel the froggy power!

JaronK

[nijineko]

Random fun find: Rain of Terror, from Dragon 348, is a Cleric 3 spell that causes frogs or snakes (or other things, your choice) to rain from the sky in a 100 foot emanation range around you for 1 minute per level.  It also gives bonuses to intimidate and such, but that's not what's important right now.

Half the creatures dropped by the spell survive.  That gives you huge numbers of small critters.  Combine with Persistent Consumptive Field and you can easily get your strength into the thousands... in addition to maxing out your caster level.  Yehaw!  Feel the froggy power!

JaronK

i wonder if moses combined that with that strength to intimidate feat on his skill check with the pharaoh....



as a side note, skin of ectoplasmic armor as an universal (wondrous) item require no proficiency to use - though since it applies a max dex, acp to skills and asf to spells, it may be of more use to a psionic type, but in a pinch it's +8 armor bonus for whomever; and only 3k gp.

[SorO_Lost]

Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

[nijineko]

comp psi has a different listing.

regardless of which one you decide to use, proficiency is not needed, which was the main thrust of my point. i guess the comp psi version gets around the movement and class ability clause, which can be nice in some situations.

[zook1shoe]

As previously mentioned, the War Hulk has some crazy abilities.

large gestalt drunken master 4 w a 100ft rope + War Hulk 10 + Crusader's Castigating Strike

affect all targets within 105ft for +8d6 and then 30ft burst for 5d6 around EVERY successful attack!

just have Steadfast Determination for no auto fails on your Fort, since you are affected by the blasts.

edit: Tornado Throw can get pretty ridiculous too, esp w Improved Trip (trip every foe within 105ft, per successful trip attack all foes within 105ft)

[Sinfire Titan]

Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

[nijineko]

Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.

[ksbsnowowl]

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.

I don't think anything in the description says that it only works for Medium creatures, does it?

Not a bad deal for Bards or Duskblades, either, or Beguilers/Dread Necros/Warmages.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... note the rules in Complete Warrior:

Meeting Class Requirements: It’s possible for a character
to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position
where the character no longer qualifi es to be a member of the
class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character
death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important
ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible
to advance farther in a prestige class.
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a
prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features
or other special abilities granted by the class.

!! The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as
any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses
that the class provided.

Oh yeah, similar arguments along these lines for PHB2 ReBuilding + cheese.

[Kasz]

Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.

Ectoplasmic Armour, 6,000gp. +8 Armour. Max Dex +2. -6ACP. 25% Arcane failure. Light armour for purposes of Class Features & Movement. MiC pg170

Pretty good to be honest, that's easily +10 AC, it doesn't say it can be enchanted like armour though... so that comes down to DM fiat, probably no as it has other advantages... such as not having a set size so it basically has free Sizing... although sizing is weapons isn't it? Well you get a weapon enchant on your armour...that's pretty unique. So the "sizing" basically covers "Wild" or "wild clasps" which cost around 4000-5000 or a +3 bonus.
To get those stats on light armour you're looking at medium armour made from mithril, so that's like twice the price after you put on a wild clasp or Wild. Although these armours can then be further enchanted...

It's very good for early game druids. Later on they'll probably want Wild Dragonhide Mountainplate... or something.

[SorO_Lost]

Proficiency is often a Class Feature...

Hmm.

[Nunkuruji]

I think this works...

Base template abuse on Effigy Creature is already known, this is a somewhat different direction.


It is fairly straightforward to build a Sacred Guardian Effigy Creature with 21HD & intelligence, thus gaining access to epic feats.

0. Be a Cleric (Effigy Master as a bonus if you want adaptation it out to 10 levels, possibly use Duergar to early qualify), Know Religion, Craft (wood/stone/metal), Craft Construct, anything applicable from Cost Reduction Handbook
1. Boost CL to 21+
2. Acquire loots: base body cost(table) + (1000gp + 80xp)*HD
3. Create Effigy of 21HD
4. Acquire loots: Prepare or buy scrolls of animate objects, commune
5. Boost CL to 11+
6. Acquire loots: 500 stl/size, category + 10 XP/size category
7. Craft Effigy into a Sacred Guardian (Krynn)
8. Sacred Guardian Effigy w/ 21HD+ now has intelligence and gains epic feats. Example creature supports this, as it has feats.

Imbuing the Sacred Guardian with the domain granting Rebuke/Command (as cleric=HD) is a nice chain of command bonus.

[ksbsnowowl]

Ectoplasmic Armour, 6,000gp. +8 Armour. Max Dex +2. -6ACP. 25% Arcane failure. Light armour for purposes of Class Features & Movement. MiC pg170

Pretty good to be honest, that's easily +10 AC, it doesn't say it can be enchanted like armour though... so that comes down to DM fiat, probably no as it has other advantages... such as not having a set size so it basically has free Sizing... although sizing is weapons isn't it? Well you get a weapon enchant on your armour...that's pretty unique. So the "sizing" basically covers "Wild" or "wild clasps" which cost around 4000-5000 or a +3 bonus.
To get those stats on light armour you're looking at medium armour made from mithril, so that's like twice the price after you put on a wild clasp or Wild. Although these armours can then be further enchanted...

It's very good for early game druids. Later on they'll probably want Wild Dragonhide Mountainplate... or something.

Yeah, I'll definitely be getting this the next time I play a druid.  Realistically you won't be able to afford it until 7th or 8th level (you pretty typically see DM's restrict PC wealth to no one item more than 1/3 or 1/4 their total wealth), but still, that's when the Druid really starts to become the melee powerhouse anyway.

Then just pick up Dragon Wildshape and turn into a Shadow Dragon for +19 natural armor at 16th level.

Hell, dip a level of Swordsage to pick up armored Wis to AC, and with the Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor you are considered wearing armor, even while wildshaped... Delicious!

Easily AC 45 = 10 base +19 natural +5 enhancement (natural) +8 armor +3 deflection (ring).
Add in Swordsage for Wis to AC, and you can tack on another 5 or 6 (or more).