Author Topic: Fun finds thread V3.0  (Read 342835 times)

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #580 on: March 03, 2013, 02:49:33 AM »
*grins*
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Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #581 on: March 03, 2013, 05:27:35 AM »
The attack roll is not an effect of the spell, it's a requirement to get certain spells to hit in the first place. The spell's effect (which can be modified with Empower and Maximized if it's numeric and variable) is what happens when and if you hit, not before.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #582 on: March 03, 2013, 06:22:18 AM »
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.
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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #583 on: March 03, 2013, 11:15:23 AM »
If that's the case, empower is pretty much a 100% auto-hit, because the way it stacks increases all your modifiers by 50%, including BAB and Dexterity.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #584 on: March 03, 2013, 11:44:09 AM »
/jranger

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #585 on: March 03, 2013, 11:51:53 AM »
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.

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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #586 on: March 03, 2013, 12:52:41 PM »
Never said it didn't, but its RAW... Since most touch spells mention the touch attack in their description
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #587 on: March 03, 2013, 02:20:19 PM »
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 02:22:29 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline Prime32

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #588 on: March 03, 2013, 02:33:11 PM »
More than that - there's finally a way to make combining mecha. :love

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #589 on: March 03, 2013, 02:39:33 PM »
More than that - there's finally a way to make combining mecha. :love

Like stacking one on top of another or something?  You have me somewhat curious.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #590 on: March 03, 2013, 02:43:44 PM »
I was thinking more "flying construct attaches as a winged jetpack"; handling a tower of five guys with Mounted Combat could get confusing.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #591 on: March 03, 2013, 02:51:30 PM »
Dragonlance seems to be full of good ones.  These are from Races of Ansalon.

Demolition Strike [General]
You are skilled in seeking out and exploiting weaknesses in
constructed objects.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Improved Sunder, Wis 13
Benefits: You may ignore the hardness of an object when
making a sunder attempt by an amount equal to half your
character level. In addition, you may ignore a construct’s
immunity to sneak attacks and critical hits.

Kinda wish they had said "immunity to precision damage and critical hits" but it's still a nice feat.

Earth Presence [General]
You have a strong connection to the earth and can use it to
feel slight movements around you.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, base Fortitude save +5, Dex 13
Benefit: As long as you are touching the earth you gain a
+2 bonus to Reflex saves and cannot be caught flat-footed by
creatures within 30 feet of you.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 02:58:04 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline Arz

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #592 on: March 03, 2013, 03:37:49 PM »
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?

Kobold with slight build can also ride critter of his size.

Offline Lo77o

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #593 on: March 03, 2013, 03:42:03 PM »
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?

Kobold with slight build can also ride critter of his size.

So with this feat he could ride a tiny mount?

Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #594 on: March 03, 2013, 04:52:51 PM »
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.

Show me a DM who'd be willing to consider this with a straight face for even one second, and I'll concede the point. This isn't even RAWyering, it's strictly bad parsing of what the words "effects of a spell" mean.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #595 on: March 03, 2013, 05:19:50 PM »
This isn't even RAWyering, it's strictly bad parsing of what the words "effects of a spell" mean.
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #596 on: March 03, 2013, 06:17:13 PM »
The master class (War of the Lance) has an ability called faithful aide that grants a cohort.  It's available at the 1st level of master, but it requires 7 ranks in a profession skill.  So, you can get it at 4th level if that's when you take your 1st level of master. 

It also has an ability called complementary scholarship that lets you use half your ranks in one knowledge skill in place of your ranks in other knowledge skills.  That's also available at 1st level and has no prerequisites. 

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #597 on: March 03, 2013, 07:42:43 PM »
That means the kobold could ride a swarm, which would be... strange

@maat mons
I'm afb, does it stack with leadership?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 07:45:48 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #598 on: March 03, 2013, 10:09:59 PM »
I'm afb, does it stack with leadership?
I don't see anything that suggests it wouldn't.

(I know I'm not maat mons, but I'm familiar with the class :p)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #599 on: March 04, 2013, 09:49:59 AM »
*chimes in too*
Empower doesn't work like that. Also, it notes Empower doesn't apply to opposed rolls but it's not talking about a Bullrush Check kthx. It uses Dispel Magic as it's example, and rolling a 1d20 vs a semi-static number is literately what Dispel Magic is meant for and does without including any other rules (such as rules on attacking). Also per RAW, the FAQ is absolutely is a part of the game's rules and we know it doesn't agree with you.

And Kethrian thinking 1d20+50% means "All spells with attack rolls are auto crits!" is right beside it in the same level of assinnine claims. Even with Improved Critical[touch attacks] and "omfg Empower Applies to that non-variable number as well!" the Critical Range  is only 18~20. There again applying Empower to the Attack Roll then in total it comes out to a 45% chance of success to threaten. Because you still need an 11 or higher on the die for it to work.

I'm just saying, someone before posting their wild claims they didn't think things through. At. All.
So the entire post rings with an false sense of purpose.