Author Topic: Fun finds thread V3.0  (Read 342900 times)

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #640 on: March 16, 2013, 03:25:32 PM »
You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck. It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.

Seriously, with White Dragon Heritage, you can dump cantrips to get a round of Rage. That is a seriously nice boost right there.

Especially since, if you take into account the fact that a Wizard with Arcane Manipulation could drop an Xth level spell for 2X Cantrips... That is a massive amount of "free" rage.

Sure, it takes your Swift action, but if that is too much of a problem, you can bump your Charisma up until it lasts, say, 3 rounds.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #641 on: March 16, 2013, 03:43:25 PM »
As said before, mad foam rager is pretty powerful with that combo!

plus get reckless rage and ettercap berserker? for extra rage stats


if only Frenzied Berserker' frenzy was based on the rage duration, not its own duration
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 03:47:49 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #642 on: March 16, 2013, 04:07:35 PM »
Someone needs to do a progressed build for this.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #643 on: March 16, 2013, 04:09:45 PM »
Hmm...

I'm thinking that if you combo'd it with a Berserking sword (perma-rage in battle), it would allow you to every other round spend a swift to get Rage up, allowing you to be pretty well covered.

Sadly, the new round version of White Dragon Heritage doesn't work that well with Mad Foam Rager unless you aren't planning on raging the next round; WDH takes a Swift, while MFR takes an Immediate.

Does anyone else think it would be useful if there was an Action Point handbook? I want to see what neat things we could get up to...

Wait.

If we stack it on another rage (say from the Berserking Sword or maybe the Rage spell), we could use Raging Luck to get two action points, thus allowing us to use Action Surge.

That comes out to (if you are stacking, say, Berserking Sword with actual rage and WDHing it up every few rounds) around two extra Standard/Move actions an encounter.

That sounds pretty nice, actually. White Dragon Heritage might actually make Rage Mage a bit more useable, thanks to the fact that you could use to essentially swap a Swift action for a Standard later that encounter...

You know what, I think I might try to build this. Thinking of a pithy name...
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #644 on: March 16, 2013, 04:12:30 PM »
Were-wolverine half-troll tauric anthropomorphic badger/dire badger

gives you 3 more rages

@name... Fuzzy Wuzzy? :P
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #645 on: March 16, 2013, 04:19:29 PM »
I was actually thinking of something a bit more basic, that could be worked up from...

If it works well enough, I kinda foresee a handbook.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #646 on: March 16, 2013, 04:37:48 PM »
Lol k... Was just trying to throw out ideas ;)

Ragey McRagerson?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #647 on: March 16, 2013, 04:55:51 PM »
You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck. It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.
There for a minute I was like, oh sweet.

Then I was like, wait, why not use Unfettering HeroismEB:RoE for free AP every round since you're a spellcaster?

And then I was like White Dragon Heritage? Never heard of it. And it grants Rage? Oh sweet.
Gotta find it.

But apparently you meant White Dragon Linage from Dragon Magic, and it doesn't give you Rage to begin with.
("similar to" != "is" && it's nothing like Rage)

Thanks for getting my hopes up and crushing them, it's like High-school all over again :p

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #648 on: March 16, 2013, 05:08:07 PM »
If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #649 on: March 16, 2013, 05:11:08 PM »
If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.

If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #650 on: March 16, 2013, 06:02:44 PM »
Spectres of Sorrow p169 Nail of Iteration. Cast where magic was recently cast (must have an aura around). Sending to original caster AND re-proc the originally cast spell, up to 5th level spells or SLA. 4k, 1 use.

There's got to be someway to use that...

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #651 on: March 16, 2013, 08:57:17 PM »
Speaking of sharp objects...

Spirit Needle is a 6th-level Wu-Jen Metal spell with a very particular use.

You make a normal ranged attack against a "spirit creature"; if you hit, they are forced Corporeal, and are literally pinned in place.

They can't move from that spot by any means unless the needle is removed, and can't even change their state (no activating Gaseous Form or Ethereal Jaunt for you, mister!) until someone else removes the needle from their body.

Now, in OA, a spirit creature is a really specific term; it only applies to creatures of the [Spirit] subtype.

However, the only place that a "spirit" is defined in 3.5 is in the sidebar connected to the Spirit Shaman, where it expands the designation to cover:

All incorporeal undead
All fey
All elementals
Creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane)
All creatures of the spirit subtype
Spirit folk and telthors
Spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose

Yes, that is a large list. And, hey, I'm pretty sure there is at least one spell somewhere that turns you into a fey or elemental; and, failing that, it's at least good at locking down incorporeal undead.
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"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #652 on: March 16, 2013, 10:16:59 PM »
If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.
Funny story.
Amechra posted White Dragon Heritage gives Rage.
zook1shoe says Mad Foam Rager.
ariasderros says nothing useful.
Amechra talks about White Dragon Heritage has Action problems with Mad Foam Rager. Still no Source mentioned.
zook1shoe breaks out Badgers.
Amechra is thinking Handbook.
zook1shoe comments.
SorO posts about there is no such thing as White Dragon Heritage, wishes source was mentioned, finds out it's not granting Rage.
Amechra's rebuttal on it not being Rage.
ariasderros shows off his talent for not reading and eats his own foot.

Brilliantly played ariasderros. :clap

If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.
Did you catch the shrunken text? If not, in detail;
1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
Powerful Build makes you large!
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.
Frenzy Berskerker's Frenzy is similar to Rage, Whirling Frenzy is similar to Rage, Battlewine is similar to Rage. Heck a Sorcerer is similar to a Wizard. similar to doesn't mean it is.
3. Other than the binary nature of on or off it is not similar to Rage at all.
Rage grants Str/Con/Will bonuses, penalizes AC, prevents mental activities,  fatigues the user when it ends, duration is based on Con, and the Barbarian can trigger a limited times per day. White Dragon Linage on the other hand grants 0~9 Temp HP, Cold Resistance 0~45, carries no limitations or negative effects, duration based off Cha, and the Sorcerer can trigger it using Spell Slots. A Haste Spell is just as comparable to Rage as this thing.

No it's not Rage and it doesn't strongly imply anything of the sort. 2 alone is one hell of a counter point, 1 & 3 are just some RAI gravy. You would have been better off claiming Rage is similar to Rage than White Dragon "Heritage".

I suggest using Unfettered Heroism instead. Page 190 in Races of Eberron.
Or Poly into a Badger.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 10:19:12 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #653 on: March 16, 2013, 10:21:34 PM »
1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.

You mean emphasised. Empathy is completely irrelevant.

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #654 on: March 16, 2013, 10:40:40 PM »
I never said it gave you rage for qualifications, only that it triggered rage-like effects; and, by the way, Battlewine actually doesn't say it is similar to rage. And the other things you mentioned? While they don't count towards prereqs as rage, they do trigger any effect that triggers on rage.

So I don't see how 2 refutes what I'm saying?

Also, if you actually look at the feat, the references to "ways this doesn't work like other rages" are throughout the entire feat, not just in the intro.

Also, the Haste spell doesn't mention Rage at all, does it?
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #655 on: March 16, 2013, 10:53:17 PM »
Okay, I don't know what the hell you've been on the last couple of days, SorO. Starting fights with everyone, more than usual, seriously. And now you are getting petulant. To say nothing of your strawmans there.

Since linking to what logical fallacies are has not previously worked with you: A Strawman is when you intentionally misrepresent another persons argument in order to more easily defeat it.

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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #656 on: March 17, 2013, 12:55:27 AM »
The deadly feint feat (Ultimate Feats, p37) has the following effect:
Quote
If you successfully feint in combat and attack your opponent while he is denied his Dexterity bonus to armor class, that attack is automatically a critical threat.

The greater feint feat could allow multiple attacks to benefit from a single feint. 

As an aside, I don't think surprising riposte could substitute for greater feint.  The loss of dexterity bonus on the later attacks with surprising riposte would be from being flat-footed, not from the feint itself. 

It's possible to either gain an extra move action or feint as a swift action. 

Unfortunately, according to the basic rules, “Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.”  So, lightning mace doesn't give you infinite attacks.  I suppose you could try to argue that the text in deadly feint trumps the general rule.  But, if we're getting nitpicky, you could also argue that automatically threatening a critical doesn't fulfill the “roll a threat” part of lightning mace. 

Anyway, using a weapon with a *4 critical multiplier could make threatening a critical on every attack fairly potent.  Alternately, enervating (Magic Item Compendium, p34) and consumptive burst (Planar Handbook, p79) each bestow a negative level on a critical hit. 

All the things I can think of to auto-confirm a critical have limitations.  Well, weapon mastery could work, but it requires 20 level in fighter. 

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #657 on: March 17, 2013, 01:19:18 AM »
...

There's also a spell in CC that gives you a luck bonus to rolls, or can be discharged to get an auto-20. It does work on save and attack rolls, too.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #658 on: March 17, 2013, 02:20:02 AM »
That book has some ridiculously good feats, some horrendously bad ones, and everything in between
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
« Reply #659 on: March 17, 2013, 03:47:30 AM »
If the source book is a problem, Rokugan has an identical feat.  I didn't reference that one because “the pincers hold, the tail strikes” is a cumbersome name. 

When I say they're identical, I mean literally word-for-word, except changing the name of the feat and the name of a prerequisite feat.  That prerequisite feat was also copied word-for-word by Ultimate Feats.  Again, except for the name. 

Hmm, my opinion of Mongoose Publishing is growing lower as I write this post.