Fun finds thread V3.0

[Amechra]

You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck. It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.

Seriously, with White Dragon Heritage, you can dump cantrips to get a round of Rage. That is a seriously nice boost right there.

Especially since, if you take into account the fact that a Wizard with Arcane Manipulation could drop an Xth level spell for 2X Cantrips... That is a massive amount of "free" rage.

Sure, it takes your Swift action, but if that is too much of a problem, you can bump your Charisma up until it lasts, say, 3 rounds.

[zook1shoe]

As said before, mad foam rager is pretty powerful with that combo!

plus get reckless rage and ettercap berserker? for extra rage stats


if only Frenzied Berserker' frenzy was based on the rage duration, not its own duration

[ariasderros]

Someone needs to do a progressed build for this.

[Amechra]

Hmm...

I'm thinking that if you combo'd it with a Berserking sword (perma-rage in battle), it would allow you to every other round spend a swift to get Rage up, allowing you to be pretty well covered.

Sadly, the new round version of White Dragon Heritage doesn't work that well with Mad Foam Rager unless you aren't planning on raging the next round; WDH takes a Swift, while MFR takes an Immediate.

Does anyone else think it would be useful if there was an Action Point handbook? I want to see what neat things we could get up to...

Wait.

If we stack it on another rage (say from the Berserking Sword or maybe the Rage spell), we could use Raging Luck to get two action points, thus allowing us to use Action Surge.

That comes out to (if you are stacking, say, Berserking Sword with actual rage and WDHing it up every few rounds) around two extra Standard/Move actions an encounter.

That sounds pretty nice, actually. White Dragon Heritage might actually make Rage Mage a bit more useable, thanks to the fact that you could use to essentially swap a Swift action for a Standard later that encounter...

You know what, I think I might try to build this. Thinking of a pithy name...

[zook1shoe]

Were-wolverine half-troll tauric anthropomorphic badger/dire badger

gives you 3 more rages

@name... Fuzzy Wuzzy?

[Amechra]

I was actually thinking of something a bit more basic, that could be worked up from...

If it works well enough, I kinda foresee a handbook.

[zook1shoe]

Lol k... Was just trying to throw out ideas

Ragey McRagerson?

[SorO_Lost]

You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck. It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.

There for a minute I was like, oh sweet.

Then I was like, wait, why not use Unfettering Heroism^EB:RoE for free AP every round since you're a spellcaster?

And then I was like White Dragon Heritage? Never heard of it. And it grants Rage? Oh sweet.
Gotta find it.

But apparently you meant White Dragon Linage from Dragon Magic, and it doesn't give you Rage to begin with.
("similar to" != "is" && it's nothing like Rage)

Thanks for getting my hopes up and crushing them, it's like High-school all over again

[Amechra]

If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.

[ariasderros]

If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.

If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Spectres of Sorrow p169 Nail of Iteration. Cast where magic was recently cast (must have an aura around). Sending to original caster AND re-proc the originally cast spell, up to 5th level spells or SLA. 4k, 1 use.

There's got to be someway to use that...

[Amechra]

Speaking of sharp objects...

Spirit Needle is a 6th-level Wu-Jen Metal spell with a very particular use.

You make a normal ranged attack against a "spirit creature"; if you hit, they are forced Corporeal, and are literally pinned in place.

They can't move from that spot by any means unless the needle is removed, and can't even change their state (no activating Gaseous Form or Ethereal Jaunt for you, mister!) until someone else removes the needle from their body.

Now, in OA, a spirit creature is a really specific term; it only applies to creatures of the [Spirit] subtype.

However, the only place that a "spirit" is defined in 3.5 is in the sidebar connected to the Spirit Shaman, where it expands the designation to cover:

All incorporeal undead
All fey
All elementals
Creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane)
All creatures of the spirit subtype
Spirit folk and telthors
Spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose

Yes, that is a large list. And, hey, I'm pretty sure there is at least one spell somewhere that turns you into a fey or elemental; and, failing that, it's at least good at locking down incorporeal undead.

[SorO_Lost]

If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.

Funny story.
Amechra posted White Dragon Heritage gives Rage.
zook1shoe says Mad Foam Rager.
ariasderros says nothing useful.
Amechra talks about White Dragon Heritage has Action problems with Mad Foam Rager. Still no Source mentioned.
zook1shoe breaks out Badgers.
Amechra is thinking Handbook.
zook1shoe comments.
SorO posts about there is no such thing as White Dragon Heritage, wishes source was mentioned, finds out it's not granting Rage.
Amechra's rebuttal on it not being Rage.
ariasderros shows off his talent for not reading and eats his own foot.
Brilliantly played ariasderros.

If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.

Did you catch the shrunken text? If not, in detail;
1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
Powerful Build makes you large!
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.
Frenzy Berskerker's Frenzy is similar to Rage, Whirling Frenzy is similar to Rage, Battlewine is similar to Rage. Heck a Sorcerer is similar to a Wizard. similar to doesn't mean it is.
3. Other than the binary nature of on or off it is not similar to Rage at all.
Rage grants Str/Con/Will bonuses, penalizes AC, prevents mental activities,  fatigues the user when it ends, duration is based on Con, and the Barbarian can trigger a limited times per day. White Dragon Linage on the other hand grants 0~9 Temp HP, Cold Resistance 0~45, carries no limitations or negative effects, duration based off Cha, and the Sorcerer can trigger it using Spell Slots. A Haste Spell is just as comparable to Rage as this thing.

No it's not Rage and it doesn't strongly imply anything of the sort. 2 alone is one hell of a counter point, 1 & 3 are just some RAI gravy. You would have been better off claiming Rage is similar to Rage than White Dragon "Heritage".

I suggest using Unfettered Heroism instead. Page 190 in Races of Eberron.
Or Poly into a Badger.

[Raineh Daze]

1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.

You mean emphasised. Empathy is completely irrelevant.

[Amechra]

I never said it gave you rage for qualifications, only that it triggered rage-like effects; and, by the way, Battlewine actually doesn't say it is similar to rage. And the other things you mentioned? While they don't count towards prereqs as rage, they do trigger any effect that triggers on rage.

So I don't see how 2 refutes what I'm saying?

Also, if you actually look at the feat, the references to "ways this doesn't work like other rages" are throughout the entire feat, not just in the intro.

Also, the Haste spell doesn't mention Rage at all, does it?

[ariasderros]

Okay, I don't know what the hell you've been on the last couple of days, SorO. Starting fights with everyone, more than usual, seriously. And now you are getting petulant. To say nothing of your strawmans there.

Since linking to what logical fallacies are has not previously worked with you: A Strawman is when you intentionally misrepresent another persons argument in order to more easily defeat it.

(click to show/hide)

Amechra posted White Dragon Heritage gives Rage.

Actually, he didn't. He flat out said, in his first post, that it was his opinion that the rage-like ability from the feat gave grounds to believe that it would trigger other rage-based abilities. But flat out admits that you would need rage from another source in order to qualify.

zook1shoe says Mad Foam Rager.

Yep. He mentioned Intimidating Rage too.

ariasderros says nothing useful.

I made a suggestion. Bite me.

Amechra talks about White Dragon Heritage has Action problems with Mad Foam Rager. Still no Source mentioned.

Actually, In his first post, Amchera made this link, to the feat he was talking about. Actually, any time he is the one to bring up a feat, he links it.

zook1shoe breaks out Badgers.

Okay.

Amechra is thinking Handbook.

Okay.

zook1shoe comments.

Okay.

SorO posts about there is no such thing as White Dragon Heritage, wishes source was mentioned, finds out it's not granting Rage.

He mentioned it wasn't rage, post #1. Source was freaking linked. LTR

Amechra's rebuttal on it not being Rage.

Actually, what he said there was repeating what he said a page ago. For your benefit.

ariasderros shows off his talent for not reading and eats his own foot.

Actually, if YOU would read the first post where Amchera started this conversation, you would have had the source for what you wanted. You also would have read the bit of him justifying the rage-like triggering rage-abilities. It might be weak, but he makes the statement.
Therefor, you didn't read, I did, now STFU.
I might put my foot in my mouth from time to time, but this wasn't one of those times. Try again troll.
Huh, looks like SorO didn't read, and put his foot in his mouth. GG noob. UMADBRO?

Brilliantly played ariasderros.

Well it wouldn't take much to look brilliant to you. 

[Maat Mons]

The deadly feint feat (Ultimate Feats, p37) has the following effect:

If you successfully feint in combat and attack your opponent while he is denied his Dexterity bonus to armor class, that attack is automatically a critical threat.

The greater feint feat could allow multiple attacks to benefit from a single feint. 

As an aside, I don't think surprising riposte could substitute for greater feint.  The loss of dexterity bonus on the later attacks with surprising riposte would be from being flat-footed, not from the feint itself. 

It's possible to either gain an extra move action or feint as a swift action. 

Unfortunately, according to the basic rules, “Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.”  So, lightning mace doesn't give you infinite attacks.  I suppose you could try to argue that the text in deadly feint trumps the general rule.  But, if we're getting nitpicky, you could also argue that automatically threatening a critical doesn't fulfill the “roll a threat” part of lightning mace. 

Anyway, using a weapon with a *4 critical multiplier could make threatening a critical on every attack fairly potent.  Alternately, enervating (Magic Item Compendium, p34) and consumptive burst (Planar Handbook, p79) each bestow a negative level on a critical hit. 

All the things I can think of to auto-confirm a critical have limitations.  Well, weapon mastery could work, but it requires 20 level in fighter. 

[ariasderros]

...

There's also a spell in CC that gives you a luck bonus to rolls, or can be discharged to get an auto-20. It does work on save and attack rolls, too.

[zook1shoe]

That book has some ridiculously good feats, some horrendously bad ones, and everything in between

[Maat Mons]

If the source book is a problem, Rokugan has an identical feat.  I didn't reference that one because “the pincers hold, the tail strikes” is a cumbersome name. 

When I say they're identical, I mean literally word-for-word, except changing the name of the feat and the name of a prerequisite feat.  That prerequisite feat was also copied word-for-word by Ultimate Feats.  Again, except for the name. 

Hmm, my opinion of Mongoose Publishing is growing lower as I write this post.