Paragon

[Krika]

Also I'm not responsible for any shenigans pulled with leadership+somehow combining Fiend of Possession( must be [baby-eating Evil]) with words of creation (must be [goody-two-shoes]).

I can think of at least one race off the top of my head (From either Heroes of Valor or Horror, can't remember which) that has a built in "Count as evil" feature. And I'm sure there are other ways to count as one or the other.

[littha]

Fiend of possession requires the Evil subtype, not the alignment (though if it did it would work for that anyway). You could easily enough be Lawful Good and get into the class provided you were a demon or something...

[DavidWL]

Amusingly, the Perfect Excellences are the least interesting.

I got that vibe from some other critiques around here, but would you care about being more specific about what makes them less interesting? Are they interesting by themselves?

Hi Oslecamo,

There are 5 perfect excellences (other than Magia) which do "something", and the something they do.
* Nothing I can't cut - a semi-strait forward extension of an earlier power
* "Tactical Genius" and "Just as planned" - both of them are cool, but once per battle.  I really like Tactical Genius, but have an aversion to "can only do it once per day/encounter" abilities

They are cool.

The other lists are much larger, which partly explains why there's something for everyone.  Also, there is more of the "you are so skilled you get to break the rules all the time in ways we've never seen before and which have very vivid imagery".

But, to be very clear (again) - I like all of them. 

Best,
David

[oslecamo]

Small update, added activated options to Nothing I Cannot Cut for area attacks and Why Does Anyone Thinks I Can't be Killed for removing harmful conditions, in order to make them more interesting.

[DavidWL]

 

Coolness

[VennDygrem]

Here and Now should read as follows: At 8th level all of the Paragon's Movement speeds are doubled (this doesn't stack with A Step Ahead).

The current version says it doesn't stack with "No Time to Waste" which doesn't exist, though is named similarly to "No Time to Rest", which is completely unrelated. Most likely this is all just due to editing class feature names and not updating all references to them.

[oslecamo]

Fixed.

[littha]

Larger than Life probably shouldn't have a 10hd advancement considering you need level 11 to actually take it.

Also need clarification on whether the Paragon Proficiency ability makes your natural attacks enchanted, I don't imagine so but that would be awesome.

[VennDygrem]

Maybe change it to 13 HD and 18 HD?

[oslecamo]

Larger than Life probably shouldn't have a 10hd advancement considering you need level 11 to actually take it.

Larger than life doesn't progress with HD, it progresses with actual Paragon levels.

Also need clarification on whether the Paragon Proficiency ability makes your natural attacks enchanted, I don't imagine so but that would be awesome.

Yeah, paragon proficiency was suposed to work with natural weapons, clarified.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

New Greater Excellence suggestion:

Legendary Ability
You need Paragon Ability to pick this excellence. Your prowess with the ability chosen for Paragon Ability increases, allowing you to spend Potential to enhance it in the following ways:

Increase its save DC by 1/ potential spent to a limit of the governing ability modifier.

Spend 2 potential to reduce its activation action by one step (free (limit 1/round), immediate, swift, move, standard, full round, 1 round.) If greater than 1 round reduce it by 1 of the relevant time units (rounds/ minutes/ hours/ days/ etc) instead.

Spend a potential to ignore limited uses for one use of the ability. This cannot be done outside combat or other plot critical situations (DM's prerogative what counts as "plot critical.")

In addition, targets no longer automatically succeed a successful save against the ability on a natural 20.

[oslecamo]

"Oh, look guys, you know my 1/day ultimate? It's multiple times per hour now. And I'm throwing multiples of them per round. And not even a natural 20 will save you trololololol*." That's the most concentrated cheese I ever saw, even by the lightest of readings.

It would be broken even if it was a perfect excellence. As a greater excellence, it's beyond ridiculous. None of the other options come anywhere close to that.

*More in detail, if you can add +10-15 to the DC just like that, the only enemies that would have any hope of suceeding would be those that would be shrugging off every other DC in anything but a natural 1.

[ImperatorK]

I like this template progression class. The only change I'm gonna do if I'll use it in my game is to make the bonus to ability scores be +1 to all six of them/per level (so +15 at 15th level, like in the official template).
Personally I don't mind the original template being boring and just numbers. The cool numbers are why I got interested in it in the first place. But all the Excellences and stuff make your version even cooler.

[oslecamo]

Allow me to point out that, unlike the template, this prestige class offers you actual HD. Meaning skill points, HD stat-ups, feats, Bab, saves, etc. If you give it full stat bonus on top of that plus the excellences, it will be brutally stronger than the original template.

As I pointed out in the intro, I cut down the ability scores precisely to make room for special abilities, and also keeping up HD up to level. The game just doesn't work very well if you have something increase level whitout actually increasing HD.

[ImperatorK]

I know. That's the point.

[DavidWL]

I just realized you can take levels of paragon without any caster level loss.  Observe:

level    cl    what
1    0    paragon magic --> the base DC of your spells be 10+1/2 HD+your highest mental stat, ignore all ACF
2    0   
3    2    paragon caster
4    2
5    4    paragon caster
6    6    Paragon Mage
7    6   
8    8    Paragon Mage

At 6th and 8th level, it is break even ... no caster level loss!

At 8th level:
+8, +8, +4 to abilities of choice
DR, SR
2x movement speeds
Potential
the base DC of your spells be 10+1/2 HD+your highest mental stat
ignore all ACF
bonus spells known

Not bad at all, yet another cool use of Paragon ... as a normal full-caster-level progress.

Best,
David

EDIT:  My bad for not reading.  At one time I knew this didn't work, but that was about 1 year ago ...

[oslecamo]

You need Paragon Spell Greater Excellence to pick Paragon Mage. It says right at the start of the ability.

[Drachos]

I have to thank DavidWL for bumping this, as  I would not have discovered it otherwise. However I do have a question.

I am considering making a Marilith, and I saw the fun that could be had with this as it means I can get very VERY High level just being the very best Marilith possible... a true monster.

However, Paragon doesn't seem to have any way to take advantage of any creatures ability to fight with more then two limbs... and any paragon of such a multi limbed race, Marilith or otherwise would have mastered such fighting. And honestly, Paragon Dual Wield would be broken as all hell, if extended to Paragon Multi wield as a basic Excellence.

So, any suggestion for a multi limbed way of handling Paragon... I mean in theory we could have a multi weapon one at Greater, but it still seems a little broken

[DavidWL]

I have to thank DavidWL for bumping this, as  I would not have discovered it otherwise. However I do have a question.

I am considering making a Marilith, and I saw the fun that could be had with this as it means I can get very VERY High level just being the very best Marilith possible... a true monster.

However, Paragon doesn't seem to have any way to take advantage of any creatures ability to fight with more then two limbs... and any paragon of such a multi limbed race, Marilith or otherwise would have mastered such fighting. And honestly, Paragon Dual Wield would be broken as all hell, if extended to Paragon Multi wield as a basic Excellence.

So, any suggestion for a multi limbed way of handling Paragon... I mean in theory we could have a multi weapon one at Greater, but it still seems a little broken

I'm sure there are tome of battle type abilities that would help with Excellences like Paragon Warrior and Paragon Fighting Style.

Best,
David

[Drachos]

I have to thank DavidWL for bumping this, as  I would not have discovered it otherwise. However I do have a question.

I am considering making a Marilith, and I saw the fun that could be had with this as it means I can get very VERY High level just being the very best Marilith possible... a true monster.

However, Paragon doesn't seem to have any way to take advantage of any creatures ability to fight with more then two limbs... and any paragon of such a multi limbed race, Marilith or otherwise would have mastered such fighting. And honestly, Paragon Dual Wield would be broken as all hell, if extended to Paragon Multi wield as a basic Excellence.

So, any suggestion for a multi limbed way of handling Paragon... I mean in theory we could have a multi weapon one at Greater, but it still seems a little broken

I'm sure there are tome of battle type abilities that would help with Excellences like Paragon Warrior and Paragon Fighting Style.

Best,
David

That doesn't really solve the problem. Part of the coolness of Paragon, (in my opinion) is you can in theory be a Paragon Dwarf, or a Paragon Drider, or a Paragon Marilith as I mentioned before, and its not a huge hindrance. You can paragon the race rather then the class, a true Olympian example of your race, someone others would look up too. Sure, it will take 5 levels of something else AT LEAST if the race has no racial levels or LA, but still.

And in a multi limbed race that would have an option for using more then two limbs.