[3.5] Noob Player Jumping in Middle

[McLuvin]

Help is needed...

I have only played D&D 3.5 one other time and once again I jumped into a game in the middle. Then we switched to 4 Ed and as quick as we switched we stopped. Even when I played in 3.5 I chose a character that sounded good and the DM pretty much created my character sheet and nothing was really explained.

Now I am joining into a game that everyone is at lvl 11. The books that I was told that I am allowed to use are: DMG, PHB, MM, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Players Guide to Faerum, and Spell Compendium. Starting stats of 14, 16, 18, 13, 10, 13. Also I cant use a race that gives a LA.

I have talked to may of friends in my area and they say start of with a fighter, barbarian, ... "they are the easiest." I don't like being the main person that is in their face. I don't like being the face of the party either. I have always like the druid that I first played. I enjoyed shapeshifting and having the pet, but also being able to heal my self and others. Casting wasn't that big for me until I played a Wizard in 4 ed. I enjoyed sitting back and blowing things up from a far.

I guess what I am asking from the Pros.. you guys, is with those books how great of a character can I make? I think I want to roll a druid. If you guys have another input please let me know. Don't forget I am somewhat a Noob! I don't what everything given to me, I want to be explained why it is better so I understand. You know... "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish and feed him for life." I have searched all over the net and have seen some really good builds but they include books that I am unable to use.

[McLuvin]

I forgot to add... I don't know where to start and what gear to use. Like I said everything was handed to me. I am dont really know what stats are best. It seems like the forums say these are good but I need to choose what is better.

[Solo]

I have a level 10 SRD only barbarian/fighter here. Feel free to look around and ask questions. Be warned, playing in melee is not easy.

I have a level 10 core sorcerer here. Again, look and as questions.

With the Player's Guide to Faerun and the SpC, you can make some very powerful spellcasters. Mainly through use of Incantatrix and metamagic stacking abuse.

[OutlawPhilosopher]

Hrm. Well, I'm hardly what you'd call a 'pro,' but it seems to me that a Druid is completely viable with access to only that material. The Druid Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0) has some pretty useful advice on spell selection and wildshape forms/animal companions, as I recall. I think there was some discussion on a 'canonical' druid build a while back, too, though the thread eludes me at the moment.

Honestly, Druid is a powerful enough class that, with fairly little work, you can create a very strong character. Do remember to take Natural Spell, though.

Prestige classes for Druid are largely not worth the trouble, especially given the books you have access to. Most will actually make your character weaker. This is not really a problem, as straight Druid is... ah... very good indeed.

One thing to note is that the healing route, while important out of combat, is generally overrated in combat situations. Devoting your spell slots to stuff that helps you take less damage by, eg, winning the fight quickly, is usually a better choice (this is a simple result of the relative effectiveness of healing spells vs. damage outlay at the same levels. I believe there is a guide to healing somewhere on these boards if you are curious.)

I will leave more specific advice to people with more druidic/core experience than myself.

[weenog]

I have talked to may of friends in my area and they say start of with a fighter, barbarian, ... "they are the easiest."

Whoever told you that Fighter is among the easiest, ignore him from now on.  Fighter is hard, especially with book access like that, and if you screw it up you have no way to fix it.  Even if you know what you're doing and you optimize so hard you start sweating blood from it, it won't be very good.

Fighter is completely unforgiving because it has no class features -- all it has is bonus feats.  You have nothing to fall back on if you screw up, and you can't change those feats.  Furthermore there are no "extra" feats, you need every last one of those feats spent perfectly into coordinated feat chains just to manage Barely Competent.  And with those books you don't have access to the good feat chains, anyway.  Then even if you do manage Barely Competent with your precisely chosen feat chains, it only counts in combat.  All you bring to the table is "hit the thing with the other thing", and in fights where you can't hit the thing, or in non-fight encounters where nothing needs to be hit, you get to sit on the bench and watch the other characters play, while you contribute nothing.

[Wiggins]

Druid seconded. It's got everything, and you won't have to worry about prestige classes. It's just so easy, and you'll learn about every element of the game by playing a druid for long enough.

You learn how to be a fighter in combat, by controlling your animal companion and your summoned lions and tigers and bears (including some with the fighter feats).

You learn to be a wizard, casting awesome spells.

You learn to be a cleric with the debate on whether you should be packing heals at low levels.

And with your high Wisdom (this should probably be 18), you're the skill monkey when it comes to spot and listen, not to mention being a walking lie detector!

[Ziegander]

So, yeah, playing a Druid in this game you're jumping into should work out really well. So, did you want some help building the character? Some advice on how to play a Druid, and what spells to look at? Wild Shape and/or Animal Companion advice? We can manage all of that.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

+1 @ Druid

It has been said; but, you absolutely want:
18 Wis
Natural Spell

that's it!    have fun with the rest, maybe pick up some metamagic feats b/c you like to hang back and blast, for the animal companion, pick something Tanky if you want him to fight, like a brown bear, then you can buff him with spells, or dire bat if you want a flying mount, but that isn't really that big of a deal either because you can wildshape into a flying animal anyway.

as far as healing goes, just summon a unicorn to heal the party every once in a while.  Never prepare Summon Nature's Ally spells because you can summon those spontaneously by giving up a prepared spell.

EDIT: Recommended reading if you want to know why everyone is agreeing with druid:
 Tier List and more in depth, Why each class is in it's tier

[Gavinfoxx]

To Druid, I would add: You want Wis primary, Con Secondary, and natural spell.

And never get options that remove class features (there are a bunch of alternative class features for druid in various obscure books, but they are all pretty much nerfs), nor do you get feats that lower your power level by removing access to anything (like Vow of Poverty).

Also, even with core-only, there is an item that lets you communicate with others while wild-shaped.  It's the cursed amulet of thought projection, in the DMG.  This lets you be wild shaped 24/7, which you can do by level 8.  Thus, you can just buy barding for your favorite animal combat form, and be in that all the time you expect trouble.  Also buy barding for your animal companion.

Also, focus on battlefield control spells (Druid has some great ones) and summons (again, druid has some great ones).

[McLuvin]

Also, even with core-only, there is an item that lets you communicate with others while wild-shaped.  It's the cursed amulet of thought projection, in the DMG.  This lets you be wild shaped 24/7, which you can do by level 8.

From D20SRD:

Medallion of Thought Projection
This device seems like a medallion of thoughts, even down to the range at which it functions, except that the thoughts overheard are muffled and distorted, requiring a DC 15 Will save to sort out. However, while the user thinks she is picking up the thoughts of others, all she is really hearing are figments created by the medallion itself. These illusory thoughts always seem plausible and thus can seriously mislead any who rely upon them. What’s worse, unknown to her, the cursed medallion actually broadcasts her thoughts to creatures in the path of the beam, thus alerting them to her presence.

[Halinn]

Won't that just meld and become useless when wild shaped?

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Won't that just meld and become useless when wild shaped?

take it off, wildshape, put it back on

[Gavinfoxx]

Won't that just meld and become useless when wild shaped?

take it off, wildshape, put it back on

Exactly!  Also do that with belts and vests and 'rings' that are bracelets or bangles and stuff.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Druid ... works just fine.

"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish and feed him for life."

Neutral : Give a man a fish, because Teaching takes way too much time.  Besides, that (minor creation) fish will disappear in about 5 rounds, and you'll be long gone.

Chaotic Neutral : Feed a man for a random time , debate the meaning of fish some of that time.

Chaotic Evil : Tie a man to a stake with the fish just out of reach, on a demiplane with No Time.  Giggle maniac'ly.

Lawful Good with a ridiculously long type of paladins code :
FISH ARE EVIL YOU FOOL !!!
You must purify and purge yourself at the Garden Of Yathrinsee.  No food , not for a long time.  I will go Atone myself in hopes Yathrinsee won't leave us defenseless against any Hobgoblin sneak attacks.  I don't like you - but honor demands I let you boil leather armor for 3 weeks after the Purifiers have purged the evil from you, and this danger is past.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Lawful Evil: The man may have a fish as long as the proper 44-34B7 forms are filed.  Pages 44-34B7-1 through 44-34B7-765A, two witnesses must be present to verify the identity of the notary.  No more than 5cc and no less than 1cc of the applicants blood must be dabbed in block 27c in the lower right corner of each page.  Minor bullets on each page must be initialed, Major bullets require a signature.  The top half of each page contains identical blocks(1-104) that must be hand written by the applicant, containing the appropriate information, authorized codes and abbreviations.  The fish counts as 3.7 times the amount of authorized total lifetime nutritional credits as normal because it is classified as a 'gift'.  Additional restrictions apply and may change without notice, these are detailed in two different layered colors of grey ink behind the black text of the printed documents.  Where space was not available to adequately describe certain terms, references are made throughout the document, citing the proper manual, regulation, publication, book, ruling, meeting minutes, contract, code or statute.  If a cited reference is out of date, defer to the appropriate updated source.

[Solo]

Wibble.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

  ... seemed a reasonable post on April Fools day.



JMH  = win.


Lawful Neutral ... same as LE, but I'll get you the fish you'll need to eat while you fill out the forms and wait in line for the correct response.  There absolutely will be a correct response.  You are advised to get adequate Lawful representation, even though we are not legally required to give you this advisement.  One Duodrone will act as your assistant during your time of need.  Payment will be negotiated afterwards.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Lawful Good (Neutral) :
Dude kicks you in your butt * ... "You really ought to have learned  how to fish yourself by now."
Dude calls out to nearest fish ... "Hey, help this guy out over here.  He's literate  but he can't fish."
Fish flops up onto the shore ... "You don't know how to fish yet?!     Sheez!  You can eat me, but you've really got to learn how to fish."
Bytopia wind storm blows up just to mess up your hair.  Your hat flies away, and the storm is rather happy with the results, because a young orphan needed the hat. 

* causes 1 hitpoint subdual damage

Dude targets you with an auto-hit Sneeze Cantrip, as you walk away.
Gnome chuckles, and returns to raking his hayfield.

[Endarire]

Back on topic.

With access to only those sources, a Druid works just fine.  No Hi Wlecome, but you get most of what you need in core anyway.

Since this is Faerun, a Sun Elf Transmuter5/Incantatrix10/Spellguard of Silverymoon can make for an awesome buffer with Persistent Spell + Cooperative Metamagic/Metamagic Effect to negate the slot level increase.  Snuggle up with Treantmonk so you know what you can do.  Lycanthromancer shows what a core-only Wizard can do when played well.

And why do you go Wizard?

Because you're the Batman!