good shield/armor homemade/custom rules?

[Braininthejar]

I am aware that sword-and-board isn't playable under standard 3,5 rules. heavily armored knights do better but not much better.

Do you guys know any good homemade/custom rules that change it?

[sirpercival]

There are lots of them.  The Iron Tortoise martial discipline works really nicely for S&B, and my Hylian Warrior class uses it (and other styles) effectively.

[Braininthejar]

I should start playing with those too. Writing classess is fun (actualy I have made a custom monk version but so far nobody has been interested in reviewing it. Perhaps I too should add pictures?  )

[caelic]

I'm very fond of the Hackmaster rules for armor and shields.  In brief:

1. Armor absorbs damage, but also makes you easier to hit (reduces defense.)
2. Shields add substantially to your defense, AND absorb a significant amount of damage.  However, any hit that would otherwise have missed you hits your shield, inflicting half damage.
3. If the half-damage hit inflicts enough damage, a shield break check is necessary.

However, these rules would be difficult to port over to 3.5, because of the difference between heroic fantasy and superheroic fantasy; the massive upscaling of damage in D&D would make the damage reduction of armor almost worthless very quickly.

[Braininthejar]

I was thinking along the lines:

Armour gives both defence and damage reduction (making you easier to hit is covered by it limiting max dexterity bonus - and it makes you harder to hit effectively - many hits will just "boink" and don't even get to DR)

Shield increases defence significantly but trying to sunder a shield does not provoke AoO. (making all hits missed because of the shields to be sunder attempts would be more realistic but would probably slow the battle... or perhaps not. I might give it some thinking.)

Anyway, I am looking for non-ToB stuff. I sometimes put martial adepts in my scenarios but they are rare and powerful individuals (like a fire genasi chieftain of a desert tribe) not an everyday occurance.

[Wrex]

I was thinking along the lines:

Armour gives both defence and damage reduction (making you easier to hit is covered by it limiting max dexterity bonus - and it makes you harder to hit effectively - many hits will just "boink" and don't even get to DR)

Shield increases defence significantly but trying to sunder a shield does not provoke AoO. (making all hits missed because of the shields to be sunder attempts would be more realistic but would probably slow the battle... or perhaps not. I might give it some thinking.)

Anyway, I am looking for non-ToB stuff. I sometimes put martial adepts in my scenarios but they are rare and powerful individuals (like a fire genasi chieftain of a desert tribe) not an everyday occurance.

The problem here is that AC is insignificant. Significantly Nerfing enemy to hit is required to make that kind of thing actually worth something. Plus, the best effects just target saves, but if you limit the monsters that employ them and no PC makes a GOD, AC might actually be worth something again (disclaimer: Highly optimised AC can still protect you. Highly, highly optimised.)  Let shields give a bonus on saving throws equal to the AC + Enhancment bonus they give you, and they suddenly become much more attractive. If that stacks with a cape of resistance, and enemy to hit is nerfed, you suddenly become durable.

[Halinn]

For a regular S&B fighter, destroying his shield makes him more effective, since he now has a hand open for two-handed fighting

[Braininthejar]

Adding saves, at least reflex, makes sense. But savable stuff can be protected from with magic equipment. From my experience, the biggest problem for a "tank" is when he succeeds in diverting enemy attention from the casters - and a 900 pound troll full-attacks him. (in this particular case, AC is crucial, as missing with either claw denies the troll a rend attack).

[Halinn]

Adding saves, at least reflex, makes sense. But savable stuff can be protected from with magic equipment. From my experience, the biggest problem for a "tank" is when he succeeds in diverting enemy attention from the casters - and a 900 pound troll full-attacks him. (in this particular case, AC is crucial, as missing with either claw denies the troll a rend attack).

My experience is the opposite. The biggest problem with out tanks is diverting the enemy's attention, because he is not hitting for enough damage to constitute a threat to a 900 pound troll. Probably because he is using a shield, so he can't do two-handed fighting.

[veekie]

^^
I think its more for that he lacks reach(because most reach weapons worth using are 2H), and thus control, than the sheer damage threat. If anything fighters hits hard enough in melee that people would want to avoid melee attacking him, simply because if he returns a full attack you're probably dead, 2H or not.

[Halinn]

^^
I think its more for that he lacks reach(because most reach weapons worth using are 2H), and thus control, than the sheer damage threat. If anything fighters hits hard enough in melee that people would want to avoid melee attacking him, simply because if he returns a full attack you're probably dead, 2H or not.

That too. I've only ever built a regular S&B fighter once, and that was for a cohort. But yeah, he was using a kusari-gama, since it was the only 1H weapon I could find with reach (it's in the DMG).

[Braininthejar]

My experience is the opposite. The biggest problem with out tanks is diverting the enemy's attention, because he is not hitting for enough damage to constitute a threat to a 900 pound troll. Probably because he is using a shield, so he can't do two-handed fighting.

An average troll wouldn't be smart enough to immidiately go after casters, unless he has some previous experience. SO untile they actually start hurting it, diverting a troll's attention might simply equal being the closest target.

[Wrex]

My experience is the opposite. The biggest problem with out tanks is diverting the enemy's attention, because he is not hitting for enough damage to constitute a threat to a 900 pound troll. Probably because he is using a shield, so he can't do two-handed fighting.

An average troll wouldn't be smart enough to immidiately go after casters, unless he has some previous experience. SO untile they actually start hurting it, diverting a troll's attention might simply equal being the closest target.

Casters don't wear armor, thus they are the squishiest and therefore most inviting target. Even a predatory animal would see them as the easiest target. Of course, you can just glamour your armor, and have the wizards wear glamoured robes, so you look unarmored, and they do.

[Halinn]

My experience is the opposite. The biggest problem with out tanks is diverting the enemy's attention, because he is not hitting for enough damage to constitute a threat to a 900 pound troll. Probably because he is using a shield, so he can't do two-handed fighting.

An average troll wouldn't be smart enough to immidiately go after casters, unless he has some previous experience. SO untile they actually start hurting it, diverting a troll's attention might simply equal being the closest target.

Casters don't wear armor, thus they are the squishiest and therefore most inviting target. Even a predatory animal would see them as the easiest target. Of course, you can just glamour your armor, and have the wizards wear glamoured robes, so you look unarmored, and they do.

A mithral shirt can cheaply and easily be taken to 0% Arcane Spell Failure. Not looking like a wizard is one of my favorite reasons of spending the ~2k gold it costs.

[Rejakor]

Armour as DR and Class Defense Bonus rules are on d20srd.com.

They make armour much more interesting and useful.  You can increment the numbers a bit too, they were conservative.

[Sinfire Titan]

Armour as DR and Class Defense Bonus rules are on d20srd.com.

They make armour much more interesting and useful.  You can increment the numbers a bit too, they were conservative.

That's an understatement. As-is, the Armor as DR variant is all but useless. It weakens the value of AC even further, and the return is almost completely unnoticeable past level 1.

[Keldar]

   What about having shields grant a miss chance?  That's a defensive ability that's always popular, and can be largely justified for a shield.  Something along the lines of 10% plus 5% per "plus."  It might be a bit too good, but it could be a class feature or feat.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Armour as DR and Class Defense Bonus rules are on d20srd.com.

They make armour much more interesting and useful.  You can increment the numbers a bit too, they were conservative.

That's an understatement. As-is, the Armor as DR variant is all but useless. It weakens the value of AC even further, and the return is almost completely unnoticeable past level 1.

It does work well with the Class Bonus to AC variant rule though however.
Touch Attacks become far less potent as well, which is nice.

[Rejakor]

I wouldn't use the Armour As DR rule without the Class Defense Bonus rule.  It just makes so much more sense.