Author Topic: A Different Kind of AoO Build  (Read 4861 times)

Offline Ziegander

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A Different Kind of AoO Build
« on: April 05, 2012, 06:54:19 PM »
Azurin Wolf Totem Ferocity Barbarian 2/Hit & Run Exoticist Fighter 4 (What a tongue-twister)
1st level - Midnight DodgeB, Combat Reflexes, Sidestep ChargeF, Block ArrowF
2nd level - Improved TripB
3rd level - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bolas)B, (Kusari-Gama)B (Net)B, (????)B, Hold the LineB, Mage Slayer
4th level - Spring AttackB
6th level - Elusive TargetB, Evasive Reflexes

Wield a Kusari-Gama + Large Shield. Using the +1 Mobility armor property, I qualify for Elusive Target at 6th level. At later levels go ahead and pick up Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz. Basically untouchable in melee, and with a surprise defense against ranged. It's not unbeatable by any means, obviously his saves aren't going to be strong points, and unfortunately his damage is pretty low (though, with Monk, I can take Decisive Strike to help out a little), but it seems like it would be fun to dart around the battlefield pissing off melee guys. And the mobility helps (not the feat) it to actually protect squishies that are in danger by allowing it to attack and stay between big brutes and soft allies.

Any suggestions to improve the build?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 06:15:13 AM by Ziegander »

Offline Prime32

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 07:04:37 PM »
How do you have two feats at lv3?

This build could make use of the Hit-and-Run Fighter and/or Exoticist (proficient with 4 exotic weapons, Tumble as a class skill) ACFs. Plus Zhentarim Fighter of course.
Quote from: Feats an Exoticist can take
Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Far Shot, Great Cleave, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Sunder, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Lightning Reflexes, Manyshot, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization, Whirlwind Attack

Replace human with azurin and Dodge with Midnight Dodge for slightly more AC (and more usefully, a source of power for "soulbound" item enchantments).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:36:04 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 07:06:25 PM »
How do you have two feats at lv3?

Oh, shit, I don't actually have two feats at level 3... hmm. I may have to dip Monk for a level or two. Isn't there a Monk ACF fighting style thingy that gets Dodge and Mobility (or at least Dodge)?

EDIT: Ah, Cobra Strike, found it. I didn't realize these were on the SRD.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:11:45 PM by Ziegander »

Offline Agita

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 07:11:06 PM »
How do you have two feats at lv3?

Oh, shit, I don't actually have two feats at level 3... hmm. I may have to dip Monk for a level or two. Isn't there a Monk ACF fighting style thingy that gets Dodge and Mobility (or at least Dodge)?
Cobra Strike Monk gets the whole tree, not that we care about anything past level 2.
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Offline Prime32

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2012, 07:26:11 PM »
If you're using monk now, add the Decisive Strike ACF. Spell Reflection could work too (AFB, can't remember how good it is).
Also, made an edit to my last post after you made yours.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:27:44 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2012, 07:39:32 PM »
Yeah, Hit & Run is a no-brainer. Does the exoticist give up anything that matters? Tumble as a class skill is quite helpful. And Zhent goes down to a d8 HD in exchange for all of its goodies right? Are there ways to switch gears to optimize a bit more toward intimidating past 6th level and do so without suffering a loss of effectiveness? Because the AoO/avoidance/battledancing part of the build is basically done at 6th.

Oh, and yeah, definitely Decisive Strike is WAY better for the build that Flurry is.

Offline Agita

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2012, 07:42:58 PM »
If it's just Tumble as a class skill you want, you can use the Cityscape Web Enhancement ACFs for that. Look for "Skilled City-Dweller".
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Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 07:45:04 PM »
If it's just Tumble as a class skill you want, you can use the Cityscape Web Enhancement ACFs for that. Look for "Skilled City-Dweller".

There's that, but the exoticist would also give me a free spiked chain (and the ever-fun bolas and net; not sure what my 4th proficiency would be). I kind of like just straight guisarme + spiked gauntlet though.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2012, 07:54:09 PM »
What exactly does monk  add to this build other than Decisive Strike?  Is it just for the feats?  Mobility is a +1 armor enhancement in MIC.

How are you using Deflect Arrows, which requires a free hand, while also threatening with a guisarme, which requires 2 hands?  Even if you treat taking a hand off a weapon as a free action (which I support, but some do not agree), you cannot use a free action out of your turn unless it exlicitly says so (talking; immediate actions).

I would suggest you not throw 1/3 of the awesome Elusive Target feat away - Cause Overreach.  It's not AoOs, it's better.  Free extra attacks.  You want improved trip.  If you're too feat starved or int-lacking for Expertise..do Wolf Totem Barb dip.  Not compatible with monk, more reason to not be a monk.

Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 07:59:25 PM »
What exactly does monk  add to this build other than Decisive Strike?  Is it just for the feats?  Mobility is a +1 armor enhancement in MIC.

Yeah, Monk is basically just for the feats, though Decisive Strike is nice. I'll keep that armor property in mind though, as not dipping Monk would allow me to take Elusive Target at 6th...

Quote
How are you using Deflect Arrows, which requires a free hand, while also threatening with a guisarme, which requires 2 hands?  Even if you treat taking a hand off a weapon as a free action (which I support, but some do not agree), you cannot use a free action out of your turn unless it exlicitly says so (talking; immediate actions).

Interesting point... hmm... well, I could go exoticist to pick up Kusari Gama proficiency and carry a shield, using the Shield Block Block Arrow feat rather than Deflect Arrows. That would give me even more reason to not be a monk.

EDIT: I'm considering dropping Block Arrow entirely, so that I could grab up Constant + Dutiful Guardian by 6th level (also dropping Evasive Reflexes). It would be pretty nice if I could fit Mage Slayer in there somehow as well.

EDIT2.0: Aha! Don't need Combat Expertise anymore, thx to the Barb dip, so I can definitely grab Mage Slayer now. And I can at my leisure drop Block Arrow and Evasive Reflexes for Constant Guardian and Dutiful Guardian. What do you guys think?

Quote
I would suggest you not throw 1/3 of the awesome Elusive Target feat away - Cause Overreach.  It's not AoOs, it's better.  Free extra attacks.  You want improved trip.  If you're too feat starved or int-lacking for Expertise..do Wolf Totem Barb dip.  Not compatible with monk, more reason to not be a monk.

I do have Improved Trip. Of course, Wolf Totem Barb is probably a very strong dip to consider as well. You've given me very much to think about, sir.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:19:45 PM by Ziegander »

Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2012, 08:46:57 PM »
Replace human with azurin and Dodge with Midnight Dodge for slightly more AC (and more usefully, a source of power for "soulbound" item enchantments).

Now, what do you mean by "source of power for "soulbound" item enchantments?" Because, when I googled "soulbound" weapon enhancement, I found something that just lets you call a weapon to your hand and nothing at all to do with incarnum or essentia. Is there a weapon enhancement that lets you invest essentia into it? Is it just in the Magic of Incarnum book?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 08:56:13 PM »
Yes, it increases the enhancement bonus based on essentia.

If you have the feats to spare, or some extra levels to put in totemist or incarnate, you could get some nice soulmelds there.
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2012, 09:15:41 PM »
Every Exoticist wants a Warpike.
(click to show/hide)

Flat out superior to Guisarme.
Hmm.

Offline Prime32

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2012, 09:34:10 PM »
Yes, it increases the enhancement bonus based on essentia.
MIC has a few items with soulbound in the name, like "ring of soulbound protection", which can all have essentia invested in them.

With barbarian levels you can also use Lion Totem, right? Ferocity might be better than Whirling Frenzy.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 09:39:58 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Ziegander

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2012, 10:13:20 PM »
With barbarian levels you can also use Lion Totem, right? Ferocity might be better than Whirling Frenzy.

Indeed, Spirit Lion is also an option, but since this build is more about being a battlefield harrier and much less about offense, I feel the extra +10ft to movement is actually more important to help me stay between friend and foe. The extra distance with spring attack et al is helpful. Pounce just doesn't let me position the way I want to.

Ferocity is indeed better, for the bonus to Dex, you're right. Extra attacks of opportunity + initiative + extra damage to flat-footed foes (via Hit & Run). What's not to like?

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: A Different Kind of AoO Build
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2012, 02:30:16 PM »
Ferocity also makes cower locking easier with Imperious Command + Intimidating Rage (think that's the name).  No need to spend a feat on Instantaneous Rage.

If you wanted to go that route.  Requires cha 15, so it can be tough.