Author Topic: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?  (Read 3990 times)

Offline Bradywan

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Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« on: April 11, 2012, 08:13:43 PM »

 So, my first effort in the gestalt realm is a stinker. With input from this board, I'm sure I can turn things around. This campaign is only played a few times a year, so it took awhile for me to notice that I wasn't too good.  One thing we have going on (it might be a gestalt thing, but I think it's a house rule) Is that one "side" of our progression is "locked in." I chose beguiler. We passed two levels last night, bringing us to level 10. I have not spent these levels yet.

 I'm sitting at beguiler 10 for one class, and duskblade 1 swordsage 7 for the other, with two levels ready two spend.

 stats are these: str 14, dex 16, con 12, int 16, wis 10, cha 14

 I'm not worried about skill ranks.

 I have my 6th and 9th level feats to spend. Thus far I've been two weapon fighting.

 I can't hit a lot of things, and my spell dc's all seem to get beat. If I can't hit, the manuvers I do no aren't worth much :)

 There is no, go to the magic item store and buy what I want, and we have little coin.  Here's notable gear I have:

 Undead bane +2 shortbow (most recent item)
 Silver rapier of frost +1
 studded leather +2
 ring of protection +1
 cloak of resistance +2
 wand of magic missle (2d4) 19 charges.

 I really need a direction.A different class, a good prestige class, some feat suggestions, advice :)
 Other party member is a druid/ranger, and the dm's npc is a dragon shaman/ninja

 D&D 3.0 and 3.5 material is in. The adventure path we are playing is Pathfinder, so pathfinder material should be ok too.

Offline weenog

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 08:22:13 PM »
You'd be way better off with warblade than swordsage (full BAB progression, gains side benefits from Int rather than Wis, can recover all spent maneuvers as a swift action while attacking).  Ask your DM if you can take on some rebuild quests to gradually replace those swordsage levels with warblade levels?

Where you go from where you are probably depends on whether you're allowed to revise it.
"Whoops, forgot to roll my fire and holy damage."
"I doubt she's going to make a DC 111 Fort save, anyway."

Offline Bradywan

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 08:42:46 PM »
 Thanks for posting weenog, I forgot to add that changing anything I already have is a no go :(
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 08:44:54 PM by Bradywan »

Offline weenog

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2012, 08:54:54 PM »
Not even with rebuild quests?  I guess there are some parts of PHB2 your DM likes, and some he doesn't.

This "locked in" progression you have... are you fully restricted to sticking with the base class, or are you able to adopt a prestige class that advances some or all features of the base class?  I ask because you can't take hybrid prestige classes in gestalt, but a caster prestige class would be horribly redundant if you didn't actually get spellcasting advancement from it, because you were advancing the same spellcasting progression on the other side.
"Whoops, forgot to roll my fire and holy damage."
"I doubt she's going to make a DC 111 Fort save, anyway."

Offline Bradywan

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 03:45:16 AM »
Yeah, one half of my gestalt character is beguiler, no exceptions :(

Offline Genuine

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 09:47:15 AM »
One thing I've noticed about beguilers is that their competency depends more on play-style than their build. I'd suggest looking over the beguiler handbook to pick out strategy that appeals to you, this is also a good resource.

I can't help but feel curious as to how the character is lousy? I do know that often a problem with gestalt characters is that they try to do too much. You aught to be picking the abilities on the other side with an eye to improving the beguiler levels. That means focusing on the spell casting over beat-sticking. Make sure you have the teleport maneuvers and the save boosting maneuvers; counters in general will help you much more than strikes; defensive and maneuverability stances will also help you more than the offensive stances.

As a caster, your goal is to get off the right spell at the right time. Use your swordsage abilities to keep away from the enemy and avoid debilitating conditions. Plink away only if an actual spell isn't necessary.

As always, you're going to have your hardest time with enemies that are immune to [mind affecting] effects. But there is always room for some solid fog. Especially if you've put Freedom of Movement on the druid or ninja.

Offline Ithamar

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »
See if you can get to use Kung Fu Genius feat to change all your swordsage WIS based stuff to INT.  Then with your last 2 levels take Factotum and start taking Font of Inspiration as much as possible.  Or if you really want to, take 3 levels of Swashbuckler to get INT to damage with finessable weapons.  Then start wielding a spiked chain and using Shadowblade feat.  At least then you'll get STR, DEX & INT to damage.

Or, and this is probably random, but start taking levels in Dragon Disciple.  You get d12 HD, 2 good saves, stat boosts that will help your combat ability, and bonus spell slots (that you can probably use on your beguiler side).

Offline Kremti

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 10:19:28 AM »
OK, so looking at this character, I feel a deep disconnect in how you want to play, and how this character is built.  The problem I think comes from the "Locked-in" side of the character (Where you should get the "meat" of the character's power) is Beguiler, but you are playing it like Swordsage (two-weapon melee fighting).

So, I think I agree with Geuine.  My first reaction is to stop playing like a Swordsage, not get into melee combat, hide+control from distance, use the "off" side to either help the "locked-in" side (More things to help with Beguiler casting, like some metamagic help, adding some extra spells into Beguiler spell list, or gaining some action economy), or get some way to help the defense (teleport away from approaching enemy, help with saving throws, etcs).

If you do want to play this character as two-weapon fighting melee (I'm guessing you already paid for the feats, and they can't be changed), then you have to sacrifice the Beguiler side, and turn that side around to help the melee fighting.  Arcane strike to sacrifice the spell slots to boost the to-hit and damage.  Find ways to add other spells into Beguiler slots, that can be used to boost the melee combat effectiveness (Either Swift-casting combat buff spells, or long-duration combat buff spells). 

Either way, you might want to look into Runestaffs to add extra spells you can cast.  Talk to your GM into building custom-ones.

-K

Offline muktidata

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Re: Help me fix my lousy gestalt beguiler/swordsage?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 12:00:43 PM »
What did you choose for your Advanced Learning? Distract Assailant (CAdv, SpC) is a swift action Enchantmet spell that causes someone to be flat-footed. I was always a fan of Unsettling Enchantment (CMg) with my Beguiler. Make someone flat-footed (denied Dex - bumping your DC's), and  instant -2AC and -2ATK, and a standard/move/full action left was always fun. Especially considering Beguiler's huge amount of spells. You could full Sneak Attack them with your TWF at that point, too. Casting Swift Action spells doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

The best thing you can do to boost your save DC's with what you have available is to take Vow of Nonviolence (BOED). It's super cheesey and has loopholes so you can actually take it and still adventure within the constraints - to the point that most DM's disallow it - but I usually can't get it allowed.
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