De-optimization challenge: Solar vs. Darkstalker Rogue

[snakeman830]

Again, I repeat that the Solar is CR 23. Thus level 23 treasure, not 20.

What is also important to notice that he does not appear to have:
- an armor

Now that you mention it, unlike a cleric, the solar doesn't have armor proficiencies.

I'd still expect it to have leather armor or so.  Super cheap, +2 to AC, no real downsides for the Solar since it doesn't cast arcane spells and leather has an ACP of 0.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Again, I repeat that the Solar is CR 23. Thus level 23 treasure, not 20.

What is also important to notice that he does not appear to have:
- an armor

Now that you mention it, unlike a cleric, the solar doesn't have armor proficiencies.

True and even outsider type specifically mentions that he needs to be described having an armor, in order to have all armor proficiencies.

[zugschef]

- a pair of golden bracers

you can enchant these per arms & equipment guide.

[Sinfire Titan]

Regardless, this thread has long since served its purpose.  I'm fine with it being closed as we've established that a Tier 4 character with a bit of optimization and tactics has a good chance of soloing a CR23 monster (which is higher than most characters will ever encounter).  As with all encounters, the exact situation can change the likelyhood of success.

I'm inclined to agree.

[kitep]

This doesn't apply to a stock solar, but solars have a 3/day Permanency SLA (ie, don't pay the XP cost), and miracle and wish to duplicate almost any spell/power, so they *should* all be walking around with every spell that can be made permanent on them.

Of particular importance is the power Danger Sense (XPH-90), which can give the solar uncanny dodge.  From the barbarian description (I assume it's the same):

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

Let the discussion begin over whether "invisible attacker" includes "hidden attacker".

Oops: found out that danger sense is made permanent through the psionic power Incarnate, not Permanency.  So the solar doesn't have it as a SLA and would have to pay the 1500 xp.  Not a big deal, but not free either.

For other permanency applications, see the handbook http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4544.0 and the discussion thread http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4545.msg63353#msg63353 (the handbook writer hasn't gotten around to including the PHB personal applications of permanency yet).

[oslecamo]

I'd still expect it to have leather armor or so.  Super cheap, +2 to AC, no real downsides for the Solar since it doesn't cast arcane spells and leather has an ACP of 0.

Except most Solar representations do show them chest-naked

(click to show/hide)

Plus, hey, you try finding leather armor that fits with those huge wings!

[RetroGamer24]

Well since it is quite obvious I am outnumbered as well not really wanting to forsake things I have experienced and believe in I leave with this.

I am so overpowered as long as the things that make complete jokes of me are banned. Fear my unstoppable stealth and board skills!


Hi Welcome to D&D


Have A Nice Day!

[Zionpopsickle]

Well since it is quite obvious I am outnumbered as well not really wanting to forsake things I have experienced and believe in I leave with this.

I am so overpowered as long as the things that make complete jokes of me are banned. Fear my unstoppable stealth and board skills!


Hi Welcome to D&D


Have A Nice Day!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

And yet again, am I the only one that finds it ironic how after being called out for their intellectual cowardliness that that group always makes some snide passive-aggressive and runs away?  Its almost sad how utterly predictable they are, its as if they expect that none of the posters on this board have ever interacted with people over the internet. 

[Kethrian]

Not that I really care to get into this new argument, but I do want to comment:

If a CR 20 treasure value should be 80,000gp, then CR 23 should be at least 140,000gp.
+1 mithral shirt of heavy fort is 37,100gp.  Well under 1/3rd the total.
Mithral shirts have a 0 ACP, meaning they have no penalties for non-proficient wearers.  Something I keep very much in mind when making psions, or with Twilight, arcane casters.
Mithral shirts also have +6 max dex, plenty for the 20 dex Solar.

[Kajhera]

Well since it is quite obvious I am outnumbered as well not really wanting to forsake things I have experienced and believe in I leave with this.

I am so overpowered as long as the things that make complete jokes of me are banned. Fear my unstoppable stealth and board skills!


Hi Welcome to D&D


Have A Nice Day!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

And yet again, am I the only one that finds it ironic how after being called out for their intellectual cowardliness that that group always makes some snide passive-aggressive and runs away?  Its almost sad how utterly predictable they are, its as if they expect that none of the posters on this board have ever interacted with people over the internet.

That would make more sense to say to someone who hasn't admitted they came into this knowing very little, and wasn't in fact the audience to be convinced.

Like me maybe, I started getting into Legend and totally forgot this forum for a while. Did anyone answer my metaquestion while I wasn't looking or have we been stating things of unknown relevancy past each other?

[dipolartech]

What was your metagame question Kaj?

[Kajhera]

What was your metagame question Kaj?

'What question(s) do we want to answer?' and 'What are our hypotheses?'