Author Topic: Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: BRISTLE)  (Read 95335 times)

Offline Balmas

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2012, 04:00:20 AM »
This is just the first, out-of-the-box thought that came to mind:  Assuming that the knives remain after they're shot, you could use cloud of knives to create a ladder in a wall.
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Offline Yuukale

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2012, 04:15:33 PM »

Offline Kethrian

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2012, 08:43:40 PM »
And then... you run into a creature with DR 10+/(not magic/piercing/slashing/silver).  Whole strategy is shut down.  That shouldn't be a common occurence, unless you're fighting an army of big elementals or fiends or some such...
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Offline Yuukale

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2012, 10:18:22 PM »
you're still a wizard (or sorcerer) with plenty of resources...

Offline Kethrian

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2012, 10:27:43 PM »
I never argued that, just the point that the spell does have a glaring weakness that is rather easily exploited.

Though, I must say, some of those abuse-the-spell strategies use up pretty much all your available spell slots above 1st level, which leaves you with only your magic items to fall back on...
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Offline Bearchucks

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2012, 04:21:22 PM »
DR, miss chances, being out of range...glaring easily exploited weaknesses of individual spells is why you grab a little from column A, a little from column B.  The metamagic feats that have the best overall coverage, the spells that (together) cover the most things.
But yes, for underlooked spells it's definitely a very nice trick.

Offline Yuukale

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2012, 09:49:29 PM »
How would this spell behave under an "Invisible Spell" metamagic?

Since the enemy won't see the attack until it hits, wouldn't he get flat footed as well? (Thus dropping the AC further...)

Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2012, 01:41:38 PM »
How would this spell behave under an "Invisible Spell" metamagic?
Since the enemy won't see the attack until it hits, wouldn't he get flat footed as well? (Thus dropping the AC further...)

I... never thought of that. I just thought of the cosmetic advantage, but there is a tactical advantage that doesn't happen with other spells because this is a free action mental activated attack. You are correct. My WORD, this spell needs to be invisible.

And it's 30ft range. Within the range of sneak attack. Crap on a stick. That could get ugly FAST.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2012, 01:44:06 PM »
This is just the first, out-of-the-box thought that came to mind:  Assuming that the knives remain after they're shot, you could use cloud of knives to create a ladder in a wall.

I thought about that, I wasn't sure if they did or not. I'm picturing the dramatic fight scene in Mystery Men. The Blue Raja did that very thing with forks.
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Offline Captnq

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Offline Yuukale

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2012, 05:28:09 PM »
Hey captn, since over here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242077 the flow of comments is faster and steadier, I started a thread asking for opinions and thoughts on the Invisible Cloud of Knives matter. If you feel like adding your thoughts =)

I'm in love with this spell (because of that post I linked here) - it's superbly effective and less feat-intensive than, say... an admixtured orb of x.

I'm currently playing on a FR campaign and plan on going:
(click to show/hide)

and although I won't focus on being a mailman, this cloud of knives allow me to vanquish many threats with little to no effort. Btw, any way of bypassing DR problems this cloud of knives might encounter?

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2012, 04:54:57 PM »
Hey captn, since over here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242077 the flow of comments is faster and steadier, I started a thread asking for opinions and thoughts on the Invisible Cloud of Knives matter. If you feel like adding your thoughts =)

I'm in love with this spell (because of that post I linked here) - it's superbly effective and less feat-intensive than, say... an admixtured orb of x.

I'm currently playing on a FR campaign and plan on going:
(click to show/hide)

and although I won't focus on being a mailman, this cloud of knives allow me to vanquish many threats with little to no effort. Btw, any way of bypassing DR problems this cloud of knives might encounter?

From the aforementioned thread:
Quote:
By the rules, you're not invisible, so they aren't flat-footed, regardless of whether they can see you're attacking them or not. Ballisteer's ability further confirms that invisible attacks are not good enough to give flat-footed. And since daggers thrown by an invisible creature stop being invisible but still deny DEX to AC, it's pretty clear that the visibility or lack thereof of projectiles has no effect on denying DEX. So you can argue fluff, but by crunch you have no foot to stand on.

Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... (Current topic: Bestow Curse)
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2012, 06:38:43 PM »
BESTOW CURSE
(click to show/hide)

ALTERNATE CURSES
(click to show/hide)

Metamagic Feats
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

Wands
(click to show/hide)
I hope you find this enlightening and I hope you find this breathes new life into an old spell.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 07:46:24 PM by Captnq »
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Bestow Curse)
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2012, 05:06:26 AM »
• Each time the target attempts to help a friend or ally, there is a 50% chance the attempt fails and causes the ally to fail at the task.

There's an Elan curse!  :lmao

I see potential for this one: "-8 to saves versus a specific school of magic."
I Quickened Bestow Curse (vulnerability to Enchantment) followed by a Dominate spell would be useful.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 05:15:48 AM by skydragonknight »
Hmm.

Offline kitep

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Bestow Curse)
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2012, 12:18:38 PM »
Yeah, but Bestow Curse allows a save - if the victim fails that save, he would have failed the dominate save anyway.  That's why I don't care if my players get creative with Bestow Curse, because they could just as easily have hit them with a save-or-suck spell.  At least that's the theory, my players have yet to ever cast this spell  :(

Offline skydragonknight

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Bestow Curse)
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2012, 12:59:00 PM »
Well eventually Dominate wears off and needs to be recast. So it's a spell-slot saver long-term to have practically a Permanent Mind Fog on your victim that is less of a liability for a minion than a real Mind Fog, since it's only one school.
Hmm.

Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Disintegrate
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2012, 04:12:06 PM »
DISINTEGRATE
(click to show/hide)

Metamagic
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

And that finishes up disintegrate! Be sure to start looking over the older spells as we’ll be moving them, one at a time, over to Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK, starting next week. Final chance to make any comments before the final version gets put in.
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Disintegrate)
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2012, 10:33:09 PM »
One the one hand, it's one of the best single-target damaging spells in the game. On the other hand, it's not save-for-half but save-for-pitiful-damage, so it's more or less a save-or-die that might not actually kill them if they have a lot of health. It is well known as the "Frenzied Berserker Killer" and has other niche uses where it is particularly effective, such as a counter to Delay Death or to destroy a [Force] effect (this is actually quite useful, making Disintegrate worth a spell slot if you don't have anything better for that slot). It's also useful if you're worried about something reviving (though not quite as useful as a Thinaum weapon in that regard, which also prevents True Resurrection).

Split Ray as mentioned does seem to have a use here as forcing two saves is better than one, so despite being a weaker SoD, it's easier to force multiple saves (other SoDs would require Twin Spell at +4 cost).

I most commonly see this spell as a Psionic Power, because of the versatility aspect of it as well as to pick off choice-targets (those with low Fort saves).
Hmm.

Offline zioth

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Disintegrate)
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2012, 11:12:13 AM »
A beholder gets one disintegrate per round. The caster level and saving throw are poor, but that doesn't matter against objects. Want to create a maze of tunnels leading to your secret underground lair in a day? Want to blast through a thousand Walls of Force? Want to quickly decide whether you've found a good site for a mine? Want to skip to the end of that tedious dungeon crawl? Shapechange into a beholder, or find one and Dominate it!

2.7 miles of 10ft cubes per day can really add up!

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Disintegrate)
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2012, 01:48:06 PM »
It is well known as the "Frenzied Berserker Killer"
How is it a FB-killer? It has a Fort save, which is his (really) good save.
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