Author Topic: Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: BRISTLE)  (Read 95384 times)

Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Sonic Snap
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2012, 12:13:47 AM »
SONIC SNAP
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Metamagic
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Scrolls
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Wands
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Sonic Snap Born of the Three Thunders/City Magic/Lingering/Energized (SL2/CL3): 4500 gp
   Damage: (1 + 1 + 1 + 1d6 +1d6) x 1.5 = 16.5 hp (5.45 gp/hp)
   More of a thought experiment then anything, I wouldn't recomend it, but it would be a rather effective attack against low level undead. Better have back up, because the undead will be immune to being stunned while you are going to be dazed. Still, not bad for the caster level.

And that wraps up sonic snap. I hope this gives you new ideas for using an old spell.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2012, 12:35:00 AM »
Born of the Three Thunders: Okay, this is going to get convoluted. Having reviewed all the metamagic feats, I have noticed that some read “Round down”. None read round up. Therefore, I believe that all feats are by default round up. So, if you apply this feat to the spell, you divide 1 by 2, get .5, round up, and get 1 point of electrical and one point of sonic. That will be important later on.

The rules state that rounding is always down, though damage has a minimum of 1.  While your logic here is faulty, the end result would appear to be the same (or it does 1 point of damage that is both electric and sonic, but that's kinda weird...).  Still, the minimum 1 damage part will probably change the outcome of many of your metamagic calculations, so...
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Offline Endarire

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2012, 01:31:17 AM »
I agree with Kethrian.

Fell Drain + Easy Metamagic: Fell Drain + Metamagic School Focus: Evocation means sonic snap can deal 3 negative levels per day from L0 slots.  Pretty good!

Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2012, 06:08:50 PM »
Born of the Three Thunders: Okay, this is going to get convoluted. Having reviewed all the metamagic feats, I have noticed that some read “Round down”. None read round up. Therefore, I believe that all feats are by default round up. So, if you apply this feat to the spell, you divide 1 by 2, get .5, round up, and get 1 point of electrical and one point of sonic. That will be important later on.

The rules state that rounding is always down, though damage has a minimum of 1.  While your logic here is faulty, the end result would appear to be the same (or it does 1 point of damage that is both electric and sonic, but that's kinda weird...).  Still, the minimum 1 damage part will probably change the outcome of many of your metamagic calculations, so...

Weird. I searched that site and didn't find that entry. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2012, 08:04:06 PM »
No problem.  I tried finding it in the books first, but couldn't, so I looked online.  Found it after in the PHB, p. 304.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #105 on: June 11, 2012, 02:30:28 PM »
I'd like to nominate Kauper's Quickblast for future discussion. It's sort of like Sonic Snap, except it's a 1st level spell and is cast as a swift action (although no deafening and since the damage is Reflex half it doesn't always work vs. enemies with Evasion). The damage isn't the nigh-unresistable sonic, but since you get to pick from fire/cold/electricity on casting, it's similarly difficult to avoid completely. Few creatures have resistance to all 3 energy types until the higher levels.

Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Sonic Snap)
« Reply #106 on: June 11, 2012, 11:20:56 PM »
I'd like to nominate Kauper's Quickblast for future discussion. It's sort of like Sonic Snap, except it's a 1st level spell and is cast as a swift action (although no deafening and since the damage is Reflex half it doesn't always work vs. enemies with Evasion). The damage isn't the nigh-unresistable sonic, but since you get to pick from fire/cold/electricity on casting, it's similarly difficult to avoid completely. Few creatures have resistance to all 3 energy types until the higher levels.

Sure thing. Might be a few days, I'm currently working on all the spells that grant negative levels.
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Aid
« Reply #107 on: June 13, 2012, 12:03:34 AM »
Dimmit, this is taking too long. Here's some filler spells

AID
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AID, MASS
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Metamagic
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Scrolls:
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Wands
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Potions:
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Well, that concludes Aid and Mass Aid. I hope you find this breathes new life into an old spell.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:05:37 AM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Negative Levels (pt1)
« Reply #108 on: June 13, 2012, 12:10:18 PM »
Having just done a write up of sonic snap, I realized that I had not looked very deep into negative levels. Having done so, I realized two things. One, a fell drain Sonic Snap may very well be the most cost effective negative level inflictor available. Two, negative level spells generally suck. It’s a bit of a hassle to take someone down with negative levels. It’s a de-buff that's most effective against enemy spellcasters. In order to properly review negative level inflictors, I think I need to see them all together.

BLACKWATER TAINT
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BLACKWATER TENTACLE
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CIRCLET OF ENERVATION
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ENERGY DRAIN
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ENERGY EBB
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ENERVATING BREATH
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ENERVATION
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KYRISTAN’S MALEVOLENT TENTACLES
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NECROTIC SKULL BOMB
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RETRIBUTIVE ENERVATION
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SPECTRAL DRAGON
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SPECTRAL TOUCH
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SPIRITWALL
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SWORD OF DARKNESS
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« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:16:24 PM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Negative Levels (pt2)
« Reply #109 on: June 13, 2012, 12:11:52 PM »
Metamagic
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Wands
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Scrolls
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Offline Garryl

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Negative Levels)
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2012, 12:34:19 PM »
Circlet of Enervation may not need to specify the duration of the temp HP. Since it has a duration, I think its effects end when the spell runs out (which includes the negative levels it gives, similar to Blackwater Tentacle). Most of the other negative level spells should technically be like that, I think, unless they say otherwise (like Energy Drain). Not sure about that, though (negative levels have their own special rules about durations, I think, gotta check).

Offline Darkcouch

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #111 on: June 14, 2012, 05:26:05 PM »
Sorry to go back to Cloud of Knives, but wouldn't your farmiliar get that Arcane Thesis/Persistant/ Extended/Fell Draining/Fell Weakening/Wounding Cloud of Knives too via Share Spell.  Even without stacking multiple instances of the spell you would get 2 free attacks per round.  Of course, your farmiliar would have to stay within 5 feet of you for all 48 hours or the spell would disipate.

Offline Endarire

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Negative Levels)
« Reply #112 on: June 14, 2012, 09:29:27 PM »
Someone who focuses on enervation can outright kill people with just ranged touch accuracy rolls if they aren't immune to negative levels/enervation/rays.  Arcane Thesis isn't metamagic, but goes a long way toward making enervation a killing machine!

For example, a Wiz5/Incantatrix4 can have this setup:
-Arcane Thesis: enervation
-Empower Spell (+1 slot level) & Easy Metamagic: Empower Spell (-2 slot levels)
-Invisible Spell (-1 slot level)
-Maximize Spell (+2 slot levels) & Easy Metamagic: Maximize Spell (-2 slot levels)
-Sanctum Spell (-2 slot levels)
-Split Ray (+1 slot level)

Assuming a Human with no flaws or extras, that takes all your feats from L1 to 9.  Still, that means 4 + d4*5 negative levels per enervation ray (and you get 2 rays) with no slot level adjustment!  Things at this level have a low touch AC, right?  There's always using heroics to grant yourself Precise Shot and Point Blank Shot to improve your accuracy.  Also, ray deflection (Spell Compendium) probably isn't a problem at this level.

Things get better with more metamagic, of course.  Black Lore of Moil!  Chain Spell, if your GM allows it to work on rays!  Repeat Spell!  Easy Metamagic!  Fell Drain if you have Black Lore of Moil and you're feeling like it!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:31:49 PM by Endarire »

Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Negative Levels)
« Reply #113 on: June 18, 2012, 01:44:26 AM »
Circlet of Enervation may not need to specify the duration of the temp HP. Since it has a duration, I think its effects end when the spell runs out (which includes the negative levels it gives, similar to Blackwater Tentacle). Most of the other negative level spells should technically be like that, I think, unless they say otherwise (like Energy Drain). Not sure about that, though (negative levels have their own special rules about durations, I think, gotta check).

I'm not certain. If I compare it to all the other spells that grant negative levels or even temp HP such as Aid, it always has some sort of duration. A duration of 1 round a level would be next to worthless. Like I said in the editorial, you could argue it both ways. Either the effect lasts only as long as the spell, or it lasts forever. I believe it to be a typo and suggest that it lasts a minimum of 1 hour, or more likely, 1 hour/level (max 15). Alas, if I went with RAW, I'd have to say it's 1r/lvl or unlimited duration. Depends entirely on how you view temporary hit points.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Cloud of Knives)
« Reply #114 on: June 18, 2012, 02:02:08 AM »
Sorry to go back to Cloud of Knives, but wouldn't your farmiliar get that Arcane Thesis/Persistant/ Extended/Fell Draining/Fell Weakening/Wounding Cloud of Knives too via Share Spell.  Even without stacking multiple instances of the spell you would get 2 free attacks per round.  Of course, your farmiliar would have to stay within 5 feet of you for all 48 hours or the spell would disipate.

Well, actually, having read over familiars, yes, that is how it would work. Cloud of Knives is range: personal, and you can make any personal spell effect your familiar as well, so you would get two free attacks a round. So, every time you cast it, it would double again. Thank you for pointing out a way to make it even more disgusting.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Negative Levels)
« Reply #115 on: June 18, 2012, 02:15:54 AM »
For example, a Wiz5/Incantatrix4 can have this setup:
-Arcane Thesis: enervation

Well, for the record, the FAQ only allows Arcane thesis to lower the over all metamagic adjustment by only -1, total. That would mean that empower could only be reduced to 1, invisible spell would be pointless, maximize could be reduced to 1, Sanctum only lowers the level AFTER it's taking up a slot. But with another easy metamagic, you could lower split ray to 1. Or liberal use of suddens and metamagic rods could have the same effect.

As for chain, only spells with a single target on the target line can be made to chain. Enervation does not have a target line at all, therefore cannot be chained.

Although, you are right, black lore is an excellent choice. Level drain is effectively -5 hp per level drained, so adding BLoM damage will dovetail nicely.
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Alibi
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2012, 02:55:00 AM »
ALIBI
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Metamagic
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Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

Wands
(click to show/hide)
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Aligned Aura
« Reply #117 on: June 18, 2012, 02:57:55 AM »
ALIGNED AURA
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Metamagic
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Wands
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

Hope this gives you new ideas for an old spell.
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with... Amplify
« Reply #118 on: June 18, 2012, 03:13:15 AM »
AMPLIFY
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Metamagic
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Wands
(click to show/hide)

As you can see, I've been out of touch for a while, thus I'm dumping a number of spells all at once.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Negative Levels)
« Reply #119 on: June 18, 2012, 03:17:39 AM »
With Aligned Aura, I'd just like to point out that sculpting it into a line, or widening it, aren't viable tactics.  The range of the spell when burst is still only 60', so any area that extends beyond that limit doesn't come into effect.
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