[D&D CharOp Software] Making a character generator (that supports constraints)

[Captnq]

Whoa!  That's one big list of spells.  You even included metamagic feats in the appendix.
Respect given.

Well, I should make it clear its a Beta Release. I hope to hypertext the whole thing and add in every possible Potion, Wand and Scroll as well as an editorial section on each spell. When it's done, I hope to include a set of random tables so you have a much wider selection of treasure.

[kitep]

I threw together a sample input & output.  Download it from
http://www.4shared.com/zip/53FbFjad/DnD_PrC_CharGen_Sample_Input_O.html

Download, unzip, and click on the setup.exe program.

Nothing is implemented.  It's just to garner feedback and see if I'm on the right path, so feedback is appreciated.

I've never "published" a program before - does anyone know how it can be done as 1 program instead of a set of files?  Or am I limited because I use MS Visual Express?

[Captnq]

I threw together a sample input & output.  Download it from http://www.4shared.com/zip/U7LRchlC/DnD_PrC_CharGen_Sample_Input_O.html

Download, unzip, and click on the setup.exe program.

Let me guess, no chance it could be Java or Mac compatible, could it?

[kitep]

Let me guess, no chance it could be Java or Mac compatible, could it?

Actually the intent of my sample was to find out what people want the program to look like.  When Dictum first mentioned his idea, I imagined a one screen program - click of a few requirements, hit <GO>, and out pops 10 different builds.  The truth is I'm up to 8 screens for the options and a 9th for the results.  And there's not usually 10 builds, more like hundreds or thousands of slightly different variations.

OTOH, people might not like the tab format.  They might prefer a 1 screen solution, where hitting <skills> or <feats> or whatever causes another window to pop up.  Right now, it doesn't matter to me and I can go either way, or even go with another option if someone comes up with one.  But I want to know soon.  After we're months into the project, I doubt we'll go back and change it.

So Mac, Java, php, whatever, isn't important now.  At least not to me

OTOH, if you were asking if the sample would run on Mac or Java, I don't know.  I always assumed Macs came with PC emulators and would be able to run it.  I think Java is an add-on and not an OS, so you don't need it for my sample.  If you want, I could probably take some screen shots and post them, but it's not the same.

[kitep]

My sample program has a place to choose sneak attack damage required.  Is skirmish and SA always interchangable, or do I need to add something for skirmish as well?  Same question about sudden strike.

Edit - I found the answer.  Complete Scoundrel, p 25, sidebar.  Sudden strike counts as SA for prestige class requirements.  Skirmish seems to be different and seems to not count.

[kitep]

I threw together a sample input & output.  Download it from
http://www.4shared.com/zip/53FbFjad/DnD_PrC_CharGen_Sample_Input_O.html

Made some changes.

Divided feats into 2 sections - one for specials (eg, Metamagic(any 3)) and one for feats by name
Divided skills into 2 sections - again, one for specials (eg, Perform(any)) and one for skills by name (eg, Perform(dance))

Divided sneak attack into 3 lines
    Sneak Attack
    Skirmish
    Sneak Attack or Skirmish

Added a few more dragon magazine references - all the ones I've listed do indeed have have prestige classes (the old version just had random numbers)

Went thru Complete Adventurer & added everything needed to select any of its prestige classes - (Reminder - the program does nothing - it just shows sample screens.  Check and uncheck the boxes all you like, it won't mean anything).

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I threw together a sample input & output.  Download it from http://www.4shared.com/zip/U7LRchlC/DnD_PrC_CharGen_Sample_Input_O.html

I'm getting "file was deleted"

[kitep]

Hmmm, I deleted the old version when I uploaded the new version.  Didn't realize that would break the link, but it's definately different.  Try this one.

http://www.4shared.com/zip/53FbFjad/DnD_PrC_CharGen_Sample_Input_O.html

(Edit: I went back and fixed the link in my original message)

[Dictum Mortuum]

OK, lets get organized! We should split up into teams and start working on functional requirements.

[SorO_Lost]

Got a Gmail/Youtube account?

Googlecode this project. Free trackers, site page for posting bugs, no OMFG SIGN UP AT 4SHARED NOW!!!!11!1!1!1!! to access, you can even handle updating without breaking URLs.

Edit - Also looks like an Express created folder. Don't bother with the crappy install BS of utter faildom.
Rename: DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output\Application Files\DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output_1_0_0_0\DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output.exe.deploy
To simply be "DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output.exe", dropping the deploy part. No mess up my-registry-some-more-microsoft installing needed, just run the real program as is.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Googlecode this project.

+ 1 Googol

[Dictum Mortuum]

Yup, it will be a google code project. Let's just agree on what the program is going to do exactly, before starting writing code.

[nijineko]

the cb data files are okay to use per the dev. just got his email back today. he points out that as far as the data content goes, it is all open source material anyway.

+1 for mac compatibility in the final product. most of my computers are macs.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

So what are the mac options? Java? Python? Browser?

[nijineko]

that plus nearly anything that can be run or made to run in unix. (berkley - darwin based specifically)

[Captnq]

Well, I'm good at file organization. Not so much at code, but I got me files on all sorts of stuff cross reffed and what not. I like organizing spreadsheet for fun. It's a gift.

[kitep]

Let's just agree on what the program is going to do exactly, before starting writing code.

Alright, let's start with simple questions.

1) Is the program
        A) to generate a stub build that meets all the requirements listed, or
        B) to be a full-blown character generator?

I don't want to be a party-pooper, but I vote for (A), stub builds only.  The full-blown char-gen smacks of major project creep.  Maybe for version 10.0, but there's plenty of work to do for the stub builder to keep us busy for some time to come.  I'll also quote the opening line from this thread

Main idea: Make an application that can generate every possible combination of classes that fulfill certain requirements.

2) Are we limiting to D&D only, or for all d20 games (eg Star Wars, d20 Modern)

I say D&D only.  Project creep, project creep, project creep. (My new favorite words ).   However, people will be allowed to add homebrew stuff, so if they can work another game in there, more power to 'em.

3) version 3.5 only, or include 3.0?  What about Pathfinder?

Project creep.  Just kidding.  Since there's no clear cut-off between 3.0 and 3.5, we should do both.  I don't know enough about Pathfinder to render an opinion on that.

4) If a class is reprinted (eg, I think Court Herald is both in a Dragon Magazine and a sourcebook), which version do we use?

I say use them both, and treat them as 2 different classes.  Chance are, if the program can handle one, it will only need minor tweaks (if any) to handle both.  And some people will have one source, but not the other.  And some people will prefer one over the other (I had a player who wanted to use the 3.0 version of Blood Magus, but not the 3.5 version).

An option in the program could say to only use the most recent version.

[kitep]

More discussion points

5) Official WOTC only, or include 3rd party stuff?

I say focus on official stuff, but if a developer has some 3rd party thing he really wants, throw it in.

[kitep]

Rename: DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output\Application Files\DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output_1_0_0_0\DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output.exe.deploy
To simply be "DnD PrC CharGen Sample Input Output.exe", dropping the deploy part. No mess up my-registry-some-more-microsoft installing needed, just run the real program as is.

Thanks.  I tried it and it works.

I've uploaded a new version on my googlecode page.  http://code.google.com/p/my-assorted-files/downloads/list  (Just to be clear, this is not the googlecode page for this project - I'll let Dictum set that up when he thinks the time is right)  It's just the .exe file and shouldn't have to be installed or anything.

I went through all the complete books and added info.
I split the feats tab into 2 tabs, the skills tab into 2 tabs, and the misc tab into 3 tabs, and added more options on the options tab.  Still just for sample input/output, the program doesn't really do anything.

This will probably be my last version unless/until someone provides feedback asking me to change/add something.  I'm thinking it has too many tabs and could use a more streamlined approach, or something to make it clearer how to use, but I'm not sure what that would be.

[nijineko]

1) i vote stub builder for now. i know that i want a full on character builder software, but let's prove the concept first.

2) i vote all games. however, i think this should be done via clever coding whereby the engine is separate from the modules and the engine simply has the methods to compare and contrast and tabulate, etc., etc., and each module will contain the database in question and the interface for querying the various characteristics to make a build stub for a given system. and that we include the d20srd as the sample files. also, use formulas instead of tables wherever possible. (ie: can't include the xp table due to license, but a formula is another matter. especially if we include the srd rules for level adjustment buyoffs.)

3) again, d20srd. or effectively 3.x.

4) include all versions of a class and mark them by source and version (and release date?)

5) official (as per wotc's definition) material only. at first. see module comments above.