Sorcerer Spell List Advice

[SorO_Lost]

About time I had one of these threads eh? I'm trying to finalize one of the many patch work builds I've got laying around for holy wtf pwnz sake and it's primary issue is Known Spells which I tend to be pretty lazy with.

Build wise, it is a Neutral Evil Dragonborn Sorcerer/Prestige Bard/Incantatrix with a Cold Theme that includes Cold Spell Specialization and Draconic Aura(energy:cold). It can learn spells from the Bard's Spell List normally, is using a Runestaff to access some Domain Spells using the excuse Arcane Disciple was retrained out, and is using a Dragonpact for some misc cold spells. All WotC primary official material is allowed. Concept wise, pretty blank but a sell out. Like it sold it's soul to the devil, a spell slot to a dragon, worships the Elder Evil Father Llymic for feats. Plans to bring about the next ice age by freezing heat producing people I suppose.

Spell List needs to be sort of broad with it's bases covered (good damage spell, save-or-die, movement, god style, etc) but thanks to Incantatrix/Persist a couple nice buffs are great. No clue on which school of magic to ban, it's looking like Illusion is the least used right now so I may go with that.

(click to show/hide)

•       Cantrips (9)
        
  • Prestidigitation
  • Any x 8
     
•       1st (5)
        
  • Expeditious Retreat
  • Improvisation
  • Magic Missile
  • Nerveskitter
  • Nystuls Magic Aura
     
•       2nd (5)
        
  • Wings of Cover
  • Glitterdust
  • Heroics
  • Rope Trick
  • Web
     
•       3rd (4)
        
  • Devil's Ego (runestaff)
  • Greater Shivering Touch
  • Primal Instinct
  • Scry
  • Any
     
•       4th (4)
        
  • Shrine's Grace (runestaff)
  • Celerity
  • Friendly Fire
  • Ruin Delver's Fortune
  • Wings of Flurry
     
•       5th (4)
        
  • Arcane Fusion
  • Major Creation
  • Telekinesis
  • Wall of Force
     
•       6th (3)
        
  • Contingency[x vs disjunction] (legacy)
  • Antimagic Field (runestaff)
  • Empyreal Ecstasy
  • Nixie's Grace
  • Snowsong
     
•       7th (3)
        
  • Arcane Spellsurge
  • Elemental Body
  • Greater Teleport
     
•       8th (3)
        
  • Unearthly Beauty (runestaff)
  • Greater Arcane Fusion
  • Bite of the Werebear
  • Any
     
•    9th (2)
        
  • Greater Visage of the Deity (runestaff)
  • Iceberg
  • Time Stop
     
•    Runestaff of Make Me Awesome (5) // 2/day each, 36,800gp
        
  • 9 - Greater Visage of the Deity (arcane disciple[mysticism])
  • 8 - Unearthly Beauty (arcane disciple[fey])
  • 6 - Antimagic Field (actually has normal access to)
  • 4 - Shrine's Grace (prc bard)
  • 3 - Devil's Ego (arcane disciple[diabolic])
     
•    Hypothermia of the Freezing Cold (dragonpact) // All spells chosen from FB only and lowest level choice.
        
  • 1st - Snowdrift 3/day
  • 2nd - Numbing Sphere 3/day
  • 3rd - Control Temperature 3/day
  • 5th - Flesh to Ice 3/day
  • 7th - Ice Castle 1/day
     

Any suggestions for completing it or spell changes?

Note: Build details finally posted: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5031.msg73340#msg73340

[sirpercival]

Are all your feats done?  You could grab a bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium (penumbra is my favorite) for some good utility.

[SorO_Lost]

Are all your feats done?  You could grab a bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium (penumbra is my favorite) for some good utility.

Oh, guess I overlooked that. Miscommunication error on my part. I meant all official to mean WotC printed not Dragon. And I did overlook the Feat area didn't I?

Account for one open feat and has the Dragonblooded subtype.

[sirpercival]

Most of the stuff that's coming to mind is defense & utility, and I have no idea what your normal MO is going to be.  Here are some suggestions (take or leave, of course):

8th - Mind Blank, Mystic Shield
7th - Limited Wish, Ironguard, Brain Spider
5th - Telekinesis, Passwall
4th - Greater Mirror Image, Scrying
3rd - (I think it's only Shivering Touch, not Greater) Slow, Disobedience, Greater Mighty Wallop
2nd - Arcane Turmoil, Rope Trick
1st - Hail of Stone, Silent Image, Shield, Magecraft, Comprehend Languages

If you're going to be using Arcane Fusion & Spellsurge for some action economy breakage, Sanctum Spell is gonna be your best friend.

EDIT: I'd suggest Minor Schema of Superior Resistance & Greater Anticipate Teleport.

[Ithamar]

From the Bard's list you can also grab Sirine's Grace.  It's just a nice, easy way to get CHA to AC (if you care about that sort of thing). 

Wings of Flurry (4th) can be nice for blasting of course.  Starmantle (6th) from BoED lets you make a reflex save to 1/2 all melee damage.

If you're not already an [Outsider], Fiendform (5th) is useful for gaining access to better polymorph forms.

[SorO_Lost]

Most of the stuff that's coming to mind is defense & utility, and I have no idea what your normal MO is going to be.  Here are some suggestions (take or leave, of course):

8th - Mind Blank, Mystic Shield
7th - Limited Wish, Ironguard, Brain Spider
5th - Telekinesis, Passwall
4th - Greater Mirror Image, Scrying
3rd - (I think it's only Shivering Touch, not Greater) Slow, Disobedience, Greater Mighty Wallop
2nd - Arcane Turmoil, Rope Trick
1st - Hail of Stone, Silent Image, Shield, Magecraft, Comprehend Languages

If you're going to be using Arcane Fusion & Spellsurge for some action economy breakage, Sanctum Spell is gonna be your best friend.

EDIT: I'd suggest Minor Schema of Superior Resistance & Greater Anticipate Teleport.

I have no idea what my MO is which probably doesn't help. I'll know what sounds good when I see it through and I'll reason out your suggestions if that helps.

(click to show/hide)

Mind Blank: Empyreal Ecstasy blocks all mind stuff after cast and halves melee/range damage, want it for keeping Moral bonuses.
Mystic Shield: Using low level buffs, MS removes them.
Limited Wish: Nice.
Ironguard: Too limited (not useful vs monsters).
Brain Spider: Have to look it up.
Telekinesis: Probably add.
Passwall: Got infinite Ddoor, let the Wizard bring the party.
Greater Mirror Image: idk.
Scrying: I need *a* Scry spell, is this the best outside of COP?
Slow: speaking of, I need a good Save-or-Die, and probably a Save-or-Suck, and mass versions.
Disobedience: Need to google that one too.
Greater Mighty Wallop: No Unarmed Strike. Probably better as a Wand paid for by the Monk.
Arcane Turmoil: Actually kind of sucks, why burn my Standard Action maybe draining a single 9th level spell when a Rod of Adsorb can do it for free?
Rope Trick: Nice.
Hail of Stone: Meh.
Silent Image: How did I forget this one?
Shield: Meh.
Magecraft: Thinking Improvisional (bard spell) for +10 Luck to cover skill checks, haven't cracked open the SpC to check the spell level.
Comprehend Languages: Considering, hate the touch limitation.

@Ithamar, Yeah got the Outsider type already.
Edit - Added some of sirpercival's suggestions.

[zugschef]

alter fortune (phb2)
elemental body (spc)

[Kethrian]

Maw of Chaos.

[SorO_Lost]

alter fortune (phb2)
elemental body (spc)

Considering but haven't committed.

Maw of Chaos.

Got Wings of Flurry, if Twinning it doesn't kill them Maw of Chaos isn't going to do any better.

Hmm... Arcane Disciple(fey) grants Unearthly Beauty, unlike other Save-or-Dies, *I* don't need LoE/LoS, you seeing me kills you so sneak up all you want...

[Kethrian]

Well, Maw of Chaos does at least have a +5 to the DC and is actually dealing continuous damage, in the case of concentration checks....

In either case, Freezing Fog is excellent for BC, as is Freezing Glance.  The latter can be argued that since it gives you a gaze attack, you can make passive gazes as well, because they're right in the gaze attack rules.  But even if your DM doesn't allow that, it's still pretty good.

[SorO_Lost]

Well, Maw of Chaos does at least have a +5 to the DC and is actually dealing continuous damage, in the case of concentration checks....

Not a concern.

Haven't totaled CL but it should only be around 19 (base) + 2 (cold) + 3 (ros) for a CL of only 24. Greater Arcane Fusion(arcane fusion[twinned wings of flurry, w/e], wings of flurry) would deal 72d6+144 for an average 396 damage plus w/e the 1st level spell is and daze them. I'm content damage wise, overkill is overkill and unneeded. Plus my 9ths are used up.

[SorO_Lost]

What? I'm innocent!
*cough*
Still working on the spell list, as I mentioned I'm slow here, no real priority.

Revised 1st post to include a bit more details on the build since apparently I gave too little before. Runestaff information is up and so is the Dragonpact as well.

[zugschef]

get a schema of primal instinct.

[sirpercival]

Grab Greater Dispel for your open 5th, or you could get Chain Dispel for your 8th (you should have some sort of dispel in there, it really isn't overlap with AMF).

There are a lot of good 3rd level spells, it's all about what you want.  Alter Fortune, Disobedience, Greater Magic Weapon...

[Arz]

Hoard Gullet (esp fi you have a familiar) Useful and hilarious.

[zioth]

Why no Shapechange? Even with a DM who doesn't allow the most ridiculous abuses, it gives you most of the Enchantment school in the form of Fey supernatural abilities. All of those abilities have a charisma-based DC, which is great for a sorcerer.

It also gives you planeshift, from outsider forms.

[SorO_Lost]

get a schema of primal instinct.

Added.

Grab Greater Dispel for your open 5th, or you could get Chain Dispel for your 8th (you should have some sort of dispel in there, it really isn't overlap with AMF).

There are a lot of good 3rd level spells, it's all about what you want.  Alter Fortune, Disobedience, Greater Magic Weapon...

Got a tab explosion going on, I'll read up on this in a bit.

Hoard Gullet (esp fi you have a familiar) Useful and hilarious.

lol, awesome. Could be amazing with Major Creation, will look into a vomiting poison combo.

Why no Shapechange? Even with a DM who doesn't allow the most ridiculous abuses, it gives you most of the Enchantment school in the form of Fey supernatural abilities. All of those abilities have a charisma-based DC, which is great for a sorcerer.

It also gives you planeshift, from outsider forms.

No real DM as the build is just a collaboration of notes and posts I've done or not fully posted.

No Shapechange is based on a few reasons. Better to just call them personal.

[Twilightwyrm]

Considering Dragonborn are not allowed to be evil, much less worship an Elder Evil, I have trouble seeing how exactly you would pull this off.

[SorO_Lost]

Considering Dragonborn are not allowed to be evil, much less worship an Elder Evil, I have trouble seeing how exactly you would pull this off.

Alignment is mutable.

For instance, if a village likes Tiamat you can kill the women and children and burn the village to the ground and Bahamut will be happy and your alignment is pushed towards the Good side despite you being a murderer and tyrant with a with a good intentioned but poorly realized idea that freezing the world in a block of ice would end all suffering.

If that BS of an excuse doesn't please the Alignment patrol. The idea that good people can do evil is a central concept in Eberron and the "Dragon Between" is the one that transforms you to kill devils and demons. You could be a soulless life hater using fire to kill fire and not only totally fit in concept, it's damn near expected of you unless your playing Eberron for the steampunk concept only.

[Ithamar]

Doesn't RotD have an adaptation section for Dragonborn of Tiamat?  I thought I remembered seeing that in there somewhere.