Author Topic: Most Powerful One-Level Dips  (Read 54226 times)

Offline caelic

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Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« on: April 21, 2012, 10:07:26 AM »
This isn't so much an earth-shattering, groundbreaking thread as a way to collect what we already know.  Certain classes and prestige classes are so front-loaded that a one-level dip grants huge benefits.  It seems like it might be useful to have a compilation of those dips.

For instance: Tainted Scholar.  A single level gives you all of the interesting features, and if you're going to build a degenerate character around high taint, one level is all you need.  (Now, there's the whole "Save or be forced to take the rest of the levels" component, but that's outside the purview of the discussion.)

What are the other truly powerful one-level dips?

Offline CyMage

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 10:20:02 AM »
I believe Mindbender and Spellsword are almost exclusively used as one level dips, though the former gets more goodies out of that.  There is always the 'Cleric 1' dip for domains and turning.

Offline InnaBinder

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 10:24:36 AM »
Crusader and Warblade both provide solid return on investment for a one-level dip above 4th level, due to the way they advance, and we all know how to harness the power of the RKV from there.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 11:07:02 AM »
Binder (for naberius).  Thrallherd.  Lion Totem Barbarian.
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Offline Tr011

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 11:20:11 AM »
Base classes:
Barbarian (There are so many ACF, you can get Pounce, Rage and IUS with one level).
Rogue (8+int skills is awesome for level 1, with Trapfinding or Poison Use and a Fighter Feat or SA +1d6)
Fighter (Drow Fighter Variant is famous for being a strong choice)
Sometimes even Monk (monk's IUS, good saves and a bonus feat)
Marshal (In some builds this is just golden)

PrCs:
Fist of the Forest (Unarmed damage +one category, Con>AC, Feral Trance)
Primal Rager (pretty strong buff for Rage)
Warshaper (Morphic Weapons, Immunity to stun AND crit and thus precision damage is strong.)
Bear Warrior (Qualifies you for Warshaper i.e.)
Master Specialist (Skill Focus Spellcraft is needed for Archmage)
Paragnostic Apostle (There are some nice abilities and all available at lvl1)
Shaper of Form (if you somehow qualify for it anyways, you can get 16+con HP with this level)
Escalation Mage (can be good at high level for a sorcerer)
Bladesinger and Dragonslayer (just like Spellsword they give +1 BAB and casting progression)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 12:06:54 PM by Tr011 »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »
Master Specialist is good for more than 1 level, as is escalation mage.  Neither of them is front-loaded.
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Offline Agita

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 11:34:38 AM »
Cleric 1 can be a great dip for mundanes. It gives you medium BAB, okay hit dice, good Fort and Will, Turn Undead if you want divine or devotion feats, and, most importantly, domain abilities, which can include bonus feats, class features, or stuff you just plain don't get elsewhere. In the case of Cloistered Cleric, it can also give you skill points. There was actually a whole mini-handbook for dipping Cleric on the old boards.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 11:39:08 AM »
Classes that grant you out-of-proportion bardic music, like Spellsinger, Warrior Skald, and Heartfire Fanner.

Sacred Exorcist (for turn undead).

How about 2-level dips?  Sublime Chord & Ur-priest... fighter...
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Offline caelic

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 11:41:58 AM »
All of these are valuable, but I think they fall into different categories.  Some provide useful, but not overwhelming, abilities; others provide a drastic boost in power; still others add versatility, but at a cost.

For example, Knight of the Weave as a one-level dip can be extremely formidable in, say, an Ultimate Magus build; however, it does require delaying progression of spellcasting in the primary class, so there's a pricetag.

One level of Shadow Adept provides a crapload of goodies for almost no investment.  (If you care about the shadow feats, you were going to take Shadow Weave Magic by definition.) 

What I'd like to do is separate the wheat from the chaff: pick out the ones that give the most benefit for the least cost.

Tiny nitpick: Warshaper, last I checked, doesn't give the bonuses to stats until level 2.  That's not to say that level 1 is a bad dip, since it gives morphic weaponry (which is really limited only by what the DM will tolerate.)  I actually consider that more powerful than the stat bonuses.

I'll let the discussion play out a little more, and then we can start sorting these into categories...maybe rank them according to the color system used in a lot of the other handbooks.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 11:45:35 AM by caelic »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 11:48:52 AM »
Totemist makes another great 2-level dip.
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Offline Tr011

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 12:06:16 PM »
Master Specialist is good for more than 1 level, as is escalation mage.  Neither of them is front-loaded.
Indeed. But I think even though some classes are valuable for more than one level, they can still make good one-level dips. You know, for those builds who got i.e. 19 levels of sorcerer progression, gaining that huge pumped Charisma on HP at lvl 20 can be nice, especially since Escalation Mage doesn't have hard requirements.

Tiny nitpick: Warshaper, last I checked, doesn't give the bonuses to stats until level 2.  That's not to say that level 1 is a bad dip, since it gives morphic weaponry (which is really limited only by what the DM will tolerate.)  I actually consider that more powerful than the stat bonuses.
You're right, I'll edit this. It was first Morphic Weapons + Immunities, then the statboost. I like especially the immunity to crits.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 03:21:21 PM »
Get the Magic Mantle mga, via Mantled Erudite 1 or Ardent 1 or Divine Mind 1.
Adds UMD + UPD + upgrades one of them + higher transparency.
Technically Wilder and PsyWar need the 2nd level, to do this.

If the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is available,
any class with feats slots can be decent.
That's what the 504 feats True Dilletant does.
This assumes you'd wanna get a pile of feats.

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Pyrokineticist (and the sono- variant) ... if you want multiple Whips as an (sp).
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Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 04:02:12 PM »
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 04:49:13 PM »
Mindbender 1 and Contemplative 1 are both great dips.

Offline Solo

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 06:48:39 PM »
Cancer Mage.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2012, 08:58:48 PM »
Ghost 1 or 2
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2012, 10:09:31 PM »
Base classes:
Barbarian (There are so many ACF, you can get Pounce, Rage and IUS with one level).
And pseudo-haste (Whirling Frenzy variant). I agree for a melee-based character, a barbarian dip is great.

Ranger with the ACF that swaps Track for Trapfinding can be great, too. You get access to all the ranger spells via wands and scrolls (without having to worry about UMD), full BAB, 2 good saves, good skill points, and a good set of class skills.
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Offline ClayQ

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2012, 10:49:11 PM »
I would argue that of the base classes that cleric 1 is the best "base class" dip, turn attempts can be used to fuel many things from devotion feats to the domain abilities. Plus you get a few decent spells even at higher levels, and access to wands (Wizard wands too if you want the magic domain)

Speaking for Melee Builds Exclusively;
Barb 1, Fighter 1, and Rouge 1 are all useful in their own right for pounce, feats, or feats/SA with skills

When you start talking about PrC's it all depends what your base build is.
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2012, 02:03:50 AM »
For general usefulness, I have to add into the crowd saying "Cleric 1".

For sheer power boost, even though it's only viable in a few builds, Tainted Sorcerer is probably the winner.  Tainted Scholar is powerful as well, but you need at least two levels into it before it catches up to the sorcerer. 

Offline Amechra

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Re: Most Powerful One-Level Dips
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2012, 04:16:14 AM »
I nominate the Marshal as an excellent dip for anyone who focuses on Charisma; who wants the Sorcerer's crazy Charisma modifier as a bonus to the ENTIRE PARTY'S initiative?
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