Author Topic: Skill Feats  (Read 17884 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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Skill Feats
« on: November 07, 2011, 08:26:26 PM »
Note: These rules are meant to be used in combination with my other house rules.



I wanted to make the crappy +2/+2 skill feats and Skill Focus suck less, so here's a crack at it. I'm not sure if some of these are still all that good, but I'm putting this out in hopes of spurring any other ideas you might have. The only thing I have reservations about right now is Skill Focus (Use Magic Device). It basically gives you the best part of a 4th level warlock for a feat. I may need to rethink that one.

What do you think?


Acrobatic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Jump and Tumble.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Jump checks and Tumble checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may treat falls as though they were ten feet shorter per two ranks you have in Tumble for purposes of taking damage.
    When jumping, you do not double the DC if you don't have a 20' running start. If you do take a running start, increase the distance of the jump by 50%. For example, normally, with a running start, a DC 20 horizontal jump clears 20'. With this feat, it would clear 30'.
    When you have 8 ranks in Jump, you gain a flight with a speed equal to your base speed at average maneuverability for one round. You must start your flight from a surface capable of supporting your weight. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface. For every two ranks beyond your 8th, you increase the duration of your flight by one round.
    If you have 8 ranks in Tumble, you may gain the benefits of the Air Walk spell as an extraordinary ability for one round, providing you start your movement from a surface that can support your weight. For every two ranks you have in Tumble beyond the 8th, you may increase this duration by one round. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface.
    If you have at least 18 ranks in both Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability.
    If you have at least 23 ranks in both Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability.

Agile [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Balance and Escape Artist.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Balance checks and Escape Artist checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    As a standard action, you may gain the benefits of Freedom of Movement until the end of your turn. In order to move through any impediment, you must succeed on a Balance or Escape Artist check with a DC set at the highest level effect you're attempting to move through. For example, if you are both in a Web and Black Tentacles spell, use the DC of the Black Tentacles spell to see if you can escape. For effects that do not have a set DC (such as water), assume the DC is 15. The DM can modify this DC based on if he thinks the effect is easier or harder to escape or move through, although they should typically be between 10 and 20.

Alertness [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Listen and Spot.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Listen checks and Spot checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
You gain blindsense with a five-foot radius for every two ranks you have between the total of Listen and Spot.
Special: The master of a familiar gains the benefit of the Alertness feat whenever the familiar is within arm’s reach.

Animal Affinity [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Handle Animal and Ride.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks and Ride checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may speak with animals and magical beasts as if you shared a language. This does not modify the creature’s initial attitude toward you, but friendly and helpful creatures will generally answer questions to the best of their knowledge and intelligence.
    You may attempt to improve the attitude of animals and magical beasts to "friendly" as an extraordinary ability if you make a Handle Animal check opposed by either the creature's Sense Motive or d20 + the creature's Hit Dice + its Wisdom modifier. Any creature that wins the check cannot be affected again for 24 hours and its attitude shifts one step closer to hostile. You may only affect a creature if its Intelligence score is lower than three.

Athletic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Climb and Swim.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Climb checks and Swim checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to half your base land speed. You may use the run option while swimming.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Climb, your climb speed increases to your base land speed.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Swim, your swim speed increases to your base land speed, and you can breath under water.
    If you already have a climb or swim speed, that speed increases by ten feet.
    Your base land speed increases by five feet for every five ranks you have in total between Climb and Swim. This speed boost is used when calculating your climb and swim speed from your base land speed in this feat.

Deceitful [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Disguise and Forgery.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disguise checks and Forgery checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may apply a disguise as a full-round action, providing you have the necessary materials on hand.
    You may forge a simple document as a full-round action and a complex document in 1d4 rounds.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Disguise, magical effects to determine your alignment or read your thoughts do not automatically succeed. The caster must beat your Disguise check with either a Sense Motive check or caster level check for the effect to work.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Forgery, you gain the following spells-like abilities at will, but with a range of "touch": Arcane Mark, Erase, and Explosive Runes. Each use requires special inks that cost 50gp per level of the spell. Explosive Runes may only be used once per object.

Deft Hands [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Sleight of Hand and Use Rope.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks and Use Rope checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may draw weapons as a free action and concealed weapons as a swift action. If you attack someone with a weapon immediately after drawing it, they are denied their Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against that attack. This ability only works once per opponent per combat.
    When escaping rope bonds, you may add your ranks in Use Rope as a competence bonus to your Escape Artist check.

Diligent [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Appraise and Decipher Script.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Appraise checks and Decipher Script checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    If you study an item for at least a minute, you can determine if it is magical. If it is, you may also learn the properties it as though you cast Identify. This is an extraordinary ability.
    Any time you sense an illusion (see, hear, touch, etc), you make an Appraise check as a free action to disbelieve the illusion. The DC is the normal DC of the effect plus the spell level of the effect. For example, a Major Image (3rd level spell) cast by a 6th level caster with an Int of 18 would have a DC of 17 (10 + 3 + 4). This is in addition to the save you get for interacting with it. This includes illusions that normally hide things from your senses, such as Invisibility. This will likely happen before the player is aware of the illusion, so the DM may have to make the check or ask the player to make it.

Investigator [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Gather Information and Search.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Gather Information checks and Search checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    After studying a 10 by 10 foot area for 10 minutes, you gain the benefits of the Stone Tell spell as an extraordinary ability. This ability functions regardless of if the area contains any stones or not and lasts one minute per character level.
    You can detect magical auras and poisons as if using Detect Magic or Detect Poison at will. This is an extraordinary ability.
    If you talk to a person for at least one minute, you may read their surface thoughts as the Detect Thoughts spell as an extraordinary ability. The DC of the saving throw is 10 + half your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier. If the person succeeds on their Will save, they cannot be affected by this ability again for 24 hours, and their attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Gather Information, you can attempt to detect hostile intent (not necessarily against you). You may either look for intent in a single person within 60' or in all people within 60'. To succeed, you must succeed at a Gather Information check opposed by the person's Bluff check. If checking against a group, use the lowest Bluff score among all hostile creatures in the area. Success indicates whether or not there is hostile intent, but not at whom the intent is directed, or even who has the intent if checking more than one person. For purposes of this ability, hostile intent includes any deliberate attempts or desires to bring harm to someone (physically, financially, politically, etc), but does not include things like grudges or animosity if the person doesn't plan to act on those feelings. If your check exceeds theirs by ten or more points, you learn the specifics about who has the hostile intent, to whom they are hostile, and what they are planning to do.
    If you have at least 13 ranks in Gather Information, you can attempt to detect alignments as the Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law spells at will, as an extraordinary ability.

Magical Aptitude [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks and Use Magic Device checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may use Detect Magic and one other 0-level spell (subject to the DM’s approval) at will as a spell-like ability. Your caster level is equal to your character level for these abilities.
    Every three levels, you learn a new 0-level spell-like ability.

Negotiator [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and Sense Motive checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may mimic the effects of Suggestion or Detect Thoughts as an extraordinary ability if you talk to a person for at least one minute. Both of these effects are language-dependent, mind affecting effects. The DC for each ability is 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier. If the target makes their saving throw, they cannot be affected by either ability for 24 hours, and their attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.

Nimble Fingers [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Disable Device and Open Lock.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disable Device checks and Open Lock checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may open a door, portal, chest, or similar item as the Knock spell by spending one minute. You may break a non-magical item so long as it weighs no more than ten pounds per character level (as the Shatter spell). It item may attempt a Will save, DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Intelligence modifier. If the object makes its saving throw, it cannot be affected by this ability for 24 hours. In either case, you  must be able to touch and manipulate the item with both of your hands. Using masterwork tools adds +2 to the DC.
    When disabling a trap, you do not trigger the trap unless you fail by ten points or more on the Disable Device check.
Normal: When disabling a trap, you trigger the trap if you fail the Disable Device check by five or more points.

Persuasive [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Bluff and Intimidate.
Benefit:   You get a +2 bonus on all Bluff checks and Intimidate checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    Magical effects to determine if you are telling the truth do not automatically succeed. The caster must beat your Bluff check with either a Sense Motive check or caster level check for the effect to work.
    You may scare an opponent with effects identical to Cause Fear as a full-round action. This ability has no hit die cap and is an extraordinary ability. The DC is 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier. If an opponent succeeds on their saving throw, they cannot be affected again for 24 hours.

Self-Sufficient [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Heal and Survival.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Heal checks and Survival checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain Fast Healing at a rate of 1 hit point per four ranks you have in Survival.
    You may use the abilities of the Heal skill faster than normal, based on your ranks in Heal:
  • 2 Ranks: Remove Status Affliction as a full-round action.
  • 5 Ranks: Remove Status Affliction as a standard action.
  • 8 Ranks: Administer First Aid as a swift action.
  • 13 Ranks: Administer First Aid as an immediate action. Remove Status Afflictions from yourself as an immediate action.
Skill Focus [General]
Prerequisite: 2 ranks in the chosen skill.
Benefit: Choose a skill. You get a +3 bonus on all checks with that skill and that skill is treated as a class skill for you each level. You may take 10 on checks with that skill, even if you would not normally be allowed to do so.

Stealthy [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Hide and Move Silently.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Hide checks and Move Silently checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain the Hide in Plain Sight ability. You can attempt to remain hidden when moving across areas with no cover or concealment, but you suffer a -10 penalty on your Hide check. You may move at full speed without incurring any penalty on your Move Silently checks.


Edit
(02/03/2012) - Added in changes from below.
(10/26/2012) - Modified several feats as discussed on page 3.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:04:53 AM by RobbyPants »
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Offline Cannotthink

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 12:46:23 AM »
I like what you've added to the feats. Having a small boost to skill checks is alright, but the feats are worth taking for the extra ability that actually has some impact on the game. Ranks in heal actually heal me? I'm game.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing similar treatment done for something like weapon focus, or adding Autonomous to the list of skill feats for that matter (changing it to autohypnosis and concentration would be a start).

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 09:51:30 AM »
I like what you've added to the feats. Having a small boost to skill checks is alright, but the feats are worth taking for the extra ability that actually has some impact on the game. Ranks in heal actually heal me? I'm game.
Thanks. I'm hoping the usage per day (one per four ranks) is good. It's kind of a hard judgment call.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing similar treatment done for something like weapon focus, or adding Autonomous to the list of skill feats for that matter (changing it to autohypnosis and concentration would be a start).
I'm working on a lot of other feats too, but I haven't finished them. Once they're all done, I'll port them over. This is part of a massive list of house rules I've been working on for a month. Just a few examples:

Dodge gives you +1 Dodge to AC (all opponents) and as an immediate action, you can give one attack that targets you a 20% miss chance.

Mobility gives you +4 Dodge to AC vs AoOs, +4 to checks for escaping grapples, and lets you move through spaces occupied by opponents with no check (but moving through threatened squares and entering enemy spaces still provokes an AoO as normal).

Feats with Point Blank Shot as a prereq have it removed. All of the core ranged attack feats have been beefed up a bit.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 09:12:27 AM »
I was thinking about these yesterday and trying to see if there is a way I can remove the rank-based X/day use. I'd like something that can be used more consistantly, but not in a way that's too powerful. What about:


Agile [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Balance checks and Escape Artist checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   As a swift action, you may gain the benefits of Freedom of Movement until the end of your turn. In order to move through any impeedment, you must succeed on a Balance or Escape Artist check with a DC set at the highest level effect you're attempting to move through. For example, if you are both in a Web and Black Tentacles spell, use the DC of the Black Tentacles spell to see if you can escape. For effects that do not have a set DC (such as water), assume the DC is 15. The DM can modify this DC based on if he thinks the effect is easier or harder to escape or move through, although they should typically be between 10 and 20.


Investigator [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Gather Information checks and Search checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   After studying a 10 by 10 foot area for 10 minutes, you gain the benefits of the Stone Tell spell as an extraordinary ability. This ability functions regardless of if the area contains any stones or not and lasts one minute per character level.


Negotiator [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and Sense Motive checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   You may mimic the effects of Suggestion or Detect Thoughts as an extraordinary ability if you talk to a person for at least one minute. Both of these effects are language-dependent, mind affecting effects. The DC for each ability is 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier. If the target makes their saving throw, they cannot be affected by either ability for 24 hours, and their attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.


Nimble Fingers [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disable Device checks and Open Lock checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   You may open a door, portal, chest, or similar item as the Knock spell by spending one minute. You may break an item you can touch with both of your hands as the Shatter spell. Both of these abilities are extraordinary abilities and have a caster level equal to your character level. The DC is 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Intelligence modifier. If the object makes its saving throw, it cannot be affected by this ability for 24 hours.


Persuasive [General]
Benefit:   You get a +2 bonus on all Bluff checks and Intimidate checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   Magical effects to determine if you are telling the truth do not automatically succeed. The caster must beat your Bluff check with either a Sense Motive check or caster level check for the effect to work.
   You may scare an opponent with effects identical to Cause Fear as a full-round action. This ability has no hit die cap and is an extraordinary ability. The DC is 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier. If an opponent succeeds on their saving throw, they cannot be affected again for 24 hours.


Stealthy [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Hide checks and Move Silently checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   You gain the Hide in Plain Sight ability. You can attempt to remain hidden when moving across areas with no cover or concealment, but you suffer a -10 penalty on your Hide check. You may move at full speed without incurring any penalty on your Move Silently checks.



I couldn't think of a good way to modify Self-Sufficient, so I left it alone. What are your thoughts? Most of these are limited by not working if someone makes their save, but they're otherwise unlimited. Negotiator and Nimble Fingers seem to be the most powerful, but they each take a minute of use to activate, so they can't be used in combat; they're more of social/puzzle encounter solvers.

Agile effectively grants continuous Freedom of Movement, but it takes a swift action to activate and requires a skill check to succeed. Granted, using a skill check to beat a spell DC will likely succeed, it's not a sure-fire thing. It may still need some attention.

Thoughts?
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 09:29:31 AM »
I think Agile is overpowered... it's now a must-take for low-level spellcasters, since if you get grappled you can just spend a swift action to cast freely.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 09:59:37 AM »
One thing my games always have with these feats: the skills they benefit are now always class skills.  Might want to add that.  It's small, but significant.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 10:54:23 AM »
I think Agile is overpowered... it's now a must-take for low-level spellcasters, since if you get grappled you can just spend a swift action to cast freely.
Yeah, you're probably right. My original version had a hard per-day cap, but I don't know of a good way to get rid of that. Do you have any ideas?

Standard action activation, maybe? That actually  might be pretty good. You can get out of stuff, but that's all you get to do for that round. If you have to move through the effect for multiple rounds, you have to make multiple checks and that's all you can do.


One thing my games always have with these feats: the skills they benefit are now always class skills.  Might want to add that.  It's small, but significant.
It is in there. In every feat.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 11:05:15 AM »
No it wasn't.  You just edited them to say that after I glanced at them and totally paid attention to the end of the first sentence rather than skimming :shiftyeyes

Anyways.  I do like these, but I think they might have gone a little too far.  For instance: Stealthy grants you, at level 1, an ability that most classes don't gain until after level 10.  Some of them work though.  It'll take a bit to go through them all and get familiar, but overall I really like these.  I know your second version of Agile still needs work.  Your idea might just solve that problem.

Nimble fingers: (ex) abilities never have a CL.  You don't even need that, I believe.  I think you'd have to re-write some of Shatter to make it work like you want it here.  Shouldn't be too hard though.  As for me, I'll get back to you on that.  I have a paper that needs polishing.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 12:06:38 PM »
Anyways.  I do like these, but I think they might have gone a little too far.  For instance: Stealthy grants you, at level 1, an ability that most classes don't gain until after level 10. 
I'd thought of that, but is it that big of a deal? All HiPS lets you do is hide while being observed, but you still need cover or concealment, right? You can't just move around freely once hidden so far as I know, but that's why I'm allowing it with a -10 penalty. Basically, if you're super-good at hiding, then you can be faux-invisible.

I guess what I'm saying is, I know this is typically granted around 10th level, but is it really a 10th level ability when Invisibility is a 3rd level ability? Heck, it's actually a 1st level ability if you make a Bluff check to distract them.


I know your second version of Agile still needs work.  Your idea might just solve that problem.
The Standard action version?


Nimble fingers: (ex) abilities never have a CL.  You don't even need that, I believe.  I think you'd have to re-write some of Shatter to make it work like you want it here.
I might want to reword that, but the CL is in there for how much weight you can affect with Shatter. But it was a very lazily worded feat, seeing as how Shatter has three uses and I really only intended on this being used for one.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 01:44:48 PM »
Ah, well, no worries then on Nimble Fingers.  Once it gets fleshed out I'm sure it'll be good.

The standard action version.  It keeps it from being an auto-take for casters, but the ability is still great to have for a number of characters.

OH!  I think.....I think you need to require ranks in the skills to take these feats......Not many, probably just 2 ranks.  But that will indicate that you actually have a reason to be this good at those skills, you don't just suddenly be able to do these ridiculous feats that people who just have high skill checks can't do.  Keeps it from being something like "I can't talk my way out of a paper bag, but I'm so good at diplomacy I can tell what you're thinking!"
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 02:17:53 PM »
Ah, well, no worries then on Nimble Fingers.  Once it gets fleshed out I'm sure it'll be good.

The standard action version.  It keeps it from being an auto-take for casters, but the ability is still great to have for a number of characters.
I'll work on those, then.


OH!  I think.....I think you need to require ranks in the skills to take these feats......Not many, probably just 2 ranks.  But that will indicate that you actually have a reason to be this good at those skills, you don't just suddenly be able to do these ridiculous feats that people who just have high skill checks can't do.  Keeps it from being something like "I can't talk my way out of a paper bag, but I'm so good at diplomacy I can tell what you're thinking!"
I could see using ranks as a prereq for unlocking particularly awesome abilities (maybe you have 10 Ranks in Hide to trigger an Invisibility effect, or something), but I don't want them for the feats themselves. IMO, how good you are at some task would be represented by what you'd invested into it, and in this case, it's a feat.

Although, some of these don't really scale that much with ranks, which means you have little reason to take the ranks, while others scale quite well. I guess it's kind of mixed.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2012, 02:28:16 PM »
Okay, here are the two offenders rewritten. I also added in a clause on Nimble fingers that you don't trigger a trap unless you fail by 10 or more instead of 5 or more.


Agile [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Balance checks and Escape Artist checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   As a standard action, you may gain the benefits of Freedom of Movement until the end of your turn. In order to move through any impediment, you must succeed on a Balance or Escape Artist check with a DC set at the highest level effect you're attempting to move through. For example, if you are both in a Web and Black Tentacles spell, use the DC of the Black Tentacles spell to see if you can escape. For effects that do not have a set DC (such as water), assume the DC is 15. The DM can modify this DC based on if he thinks the effect is easier or harder to escape or move through, although they should typically be between 10 and 20.


Nimble Fingers [General]
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disable Device checks and Open Lock checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
   You may open a door, portal, chest, or similar item as the Knock spell by spending one minute. You may break a non-magical item so long as it weighs no more than ten pounds per character level (as the Shatter spell). It item may attempt a Will save, DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Intelligence modifier. If the object makes its saving throw, it cannot be affected by this ability for 24 hours. In either case, you  must be able to touch and manipulate the item with both of your hands. Using masterwork tools adds +2 to the DC.
   When disabling a trap, you do not trigger the trap unless you fail by ten points or more on the Disable Device check.
Normal: When disabling a trap, you trigger the trap if you fail the Disable Device check by five or more points.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2012, 02:40:48 PM »
To me it just ends up being a little wierd.  You're not trained in this skill, yet you can benefit from being good at a skill?  And what about trained only skills?  Trapfinding/disable device?  Yuo aren't trained, and yet you can find traps?  Or disable devices?  That just makes no sense to me.  And with a small skill point investment, you aren't restricting it very much at ALL, the only people who would take it are ones who already put ranks into the skills, meaning the feats require nothing new for them.  But for people who aren't doing that, they would need ot actually be trained in the skill that they benefit in such a great way from.

On Negotiator, I think you could get away with allowing surface thoughts automatically.  IRL, you can do that if you're trained enough anyways.  This might end up having to be a skill check thing though.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 03:06:24 PM »
To me it just ends up being a little wierd.  You're not trained in this skill, yet you can benefit from being good at a skill?  And what about trained only skills?  Trapfinding/disable device?  Yuo aren't trained, and yet you can find traps?  Or disable devices?  That just makes no sense to me.  And with a small skill point investment, you aren't restricting it very much at ALL, the only people who would take it are ones who already put ranks into the skills, meaning the feats require nothing new for them.  But for people who aren't doing that, they would need ot actually be trained in the skill that they benefit in such a great way from.
I see what you're saying. It's counter-intuitive because ranks are normally how you measure skill. I'm just saying, if you take this feat, that's an investment, and it means you have a particular level of skill.

As for Trapfinding itself, I'm not sure how I want to handle that one. I was thinking of letting it actually be an auto-take-20 on Search checks within 10 feet if you move at half speed, or something. I mean, people can totally take 20 to search anyway, and this just speeds things up a bit at the table.


On Negotiator, I think you could get away with allowing surface thoughts automatically.  IRL, you can do that if you're trained enough anyways.  This might end up having to be a skill check thing though.
For the Detect Thoughts ability, you might be right. I really threw in the one minute rule to keep people from dropping Suggestion after Suggestion in combat.
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 03:40:48 PM »
Yes it is an investment, but again, trained only skills especially, this brings out a problem with having this feat while not being trained in the skills necessary to use the base version of it.
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 05:40:43 PM »
I hadn't really thought of the trained skills.

I could see two ranks. I was thinking of using a house rule where cross class skills only cost one point per rank, but your max ranks are halved. Then, two ranks would be doable at 1st level, and it would still cost two skill points.
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 07:45:34 PM »
That is EXACTLY why I chose two.  It is perfectly reasonable for any 1st level character to have 2 ranks in them.  I don't know if requiring both skills is a priority or not though.  I want to say "yes, do it", but I don't want to have actual requirements that might cause a problem.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 07:48:43 PM by dman11235 »
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 09:25:02 PM »
Any chance for some Tome-style skill feats? I don't know why, but before I clicked on this I was sure these were going to be Tome feats.

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2012, 10:04:57 PM »
I'd toyed with it, but I don't feel like writing that many abilities. I'd like things to either scale or stay useful, but I'm not planning on writing five abilities per feat. I did take some inspiration from the Tomes on this whole project.
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2012, 09:01:38 AM »
I updated the OP, including prereqs. I went with a total of two ranks between the two skills. This way, it's attainable at level 1, and doesn't include a huge investment of skill points in case the character is stretched thin.

I may want to rethink Nimble Fingers, since I'm planning on removing Open Lock in my house rules. I'm not sure what a good replacement is for it...
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