Nullblade [base]

[Sneaky_Sable]

I love this. Totally multiclassing this into a vicious villain monster.

[phaedrusxy]

Can you combine voidstrike with your favorite weapon? It is touch melee attack currently.

As written, no.  If I'm adding feats, I can add a feat that lets you do that... but I intentionally left it out so that you couldn't do much to augment the damage.  I mean, at 20th level you get 20d4 for 4 attacks base.  What if you're using a valorous weapon and items of Lion's Charge and Haste (since you have UMD)?  That's 200d4 untyped damage, and only the most basic optimization.  Granted it's less than an ubercharger build, but I think having a feat tax on it is ok.

I think there are spells that let you have a weapon that does melee touch attacks (like Ice Axe). So you could augment the damage already now.

Oh, hm.  Is that really how those things interact?  I don't think that's how it works.  You don't get to use voidstrike whenever you make a melee touch attack... it just requires a melee touch attack to use.

I don't think that's how those things interact. You could totally add the Improved (or Superior) Unarmed Strike feat, and make your touch attacks along with your unarmed strikes, though, as that is explicitly allowed.

[sirpercival]

OK, I'm going to add two more things, and then we can start paring down so that it's playable:

1) The ability to Nullify at range, so you can protect your friends.
2) Invocations, combining all the stuff we said before along with a few other thematically appropriate things.

Thoughts?

[Sneaky_Sable]

OK, I'm going to add two more things, and then we can start paring down so that it's playable:

1) The ability to Nullify at range, so you can protect your friends.
2) Invocations, combining all the stuff we said before along with a few other thematically appropriate things.

Thoughts?

The ability to nullify class abilities at range is insignificant next to the power of ... ahhh nevermind.

Invocations: Stick to thematic ones. If they were spells, I'd say "Knock", "Open / Close", "Passwall" and such like that. I don't precisely know how Invocations work, so if they don't work like that well then they should 

Nullify At Range: Hey that sounds like a great idea. I wonder who the dashing and innovative fellow was who gave you that idea

[The_Laughing_Man]

Nullify At Range: Hey that sounds like a great idea. I wonder who the dashing and innovative fellow was who gave you that idea

  I'm starting to like you, my dear sable! <bows courteously> Maybe it is an Augury but I think paths of our adventures may cross someday again. [/pbp]

[Sneaky_Sable]

I've heard I'm a likable guy, thank you!

He called me on the phone and said "You think in odd circles. Look at this and tell me what it needs!" and I said "It needs Disintegrate and the ability to negate attacks being made in adjacent squares to defend your friends."

I also told him what I'll say now. This is a great support class to Multiclass into.

[sirpercival]

OK, I added the things I said above (nullify at range, invocations), as well as the Nullblades & PrCs section, and 4 Nullblade feats.

I need more suggestions for thematically-appropriate invocations.

Also, now the class feels thematically complete and consistent; however, I think I've succeeded on making it overpowered.  Thoughts?  Ways to rein it in, if necessary?

[Garryl]

The following invocations may be of interest (pulled from my homebrew here and here).

Lesser
• Scorn Earth: Walk on thin air for 24 hours.
• Unholy Radiance - Absorb light like deeper darkness. You and your allies can see through this darkness, but enemies within may be fatigued or exhausted.

Greater
Greater:
• Blind Spot: Use cloud mind at will as a swift action.
• Cerebral Blind: Gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects. Information-gathering clairsentience powers do not reveal anything about you or your location.
• Inconstant Location: Use inconstant location as the power with a duration of 24 hours.

Void
• Aeon Shroud: Fold time around yourself. At your discretion, effects used against you are delayed by 1 round.
• Form of Annihilation: Use form of doom as the power. Rending tentacle attack deals additional damage and may daze foes.
• Shed Body: You and your equipment become incorporeal for no more than 1 consecutive minute.
• Wall of Faith - Create a wall of force that you and other worshippers of the same deity can pass through. (Call it "Wall of Naught", change the same deity part to self and creatures of the Void subtype or something.)

[Sneaky_Sable]

OK, I added the things I said above (nullify at range, invocations), as well as the Nullblades & PrCs section, and 4 Nullblade feats.

I need more suggestions for thematically-appropriate invocations.

Also, now the class feels thematically complete and consistent; however, I think I've succeeded on making it overpowered.  Thoughts?  Ways to rein it in, if necessary?

Make a new homebrew class called the Nullvoider, who only exists to nullify Nullblades.

[sirpercival]

I have that class already: it's called Nullblade.

[Sneaky_Sable]

So just build a multiclass Nullblade Monk and have him Flurry of Blows a multiclass Nullblade Barbarian. The resulting explosion of nothing should eradicate the gaming universe for 1d4 * 10 miles.

[phaedrusxy]

I also told him what I'll say now. This is a great support class to Multiclass into.

No kidding. I've been drooling over the thought of adding a couple levels of (unarmed) Swordsage to this. Unarmed Strike + Void Strike + Assassin's Stance + Craven = ouch

Especially once they get the Void subtype, and can become invisible after every attack as a free action, and only True Seeing can detect them... But by that point, you're 14th level, and spellcasters have 7th level spells (and are 1 level from 8th), so...

With the addition of invocations, this should really be a 3/4 BAB class at best (not that BAB is worth as much as WotC thinks it is... but still).

[Sneaky_Sable]

I also told him what I'll say now. This is a great support class to Multiclass into.

No kidding. I've been drooling over the thought of adding a couple levels of (unarmed) Swordsage to this. Unarmed Strike + Void Strike + Assassin's Stance + Craven = ouch

Especially once they get the Void subtype, and can become invisible after every attack as a free action, and only True Seeing can detect them... But by that point, you're 14th level, and spellcasters have 7th level spells (and are 1 level from 8th), so...

With the addition of invocations, this should really be a 3/4 BAB class at best (not that BAB is worth as much as WotC thinks it is... but still).

Unfamiliar with Swordsage, but would anything it has stack with the Void Strike? I don't think anything would, but now I'm curious.

And yeah, I agree this should be a 3/4 progression. You're not really using it for the attack anyway. If you dropped it to 1/2, it'd still be sweet. Personally I'm thinking a few levels of Paladin retool, throw in some of Nullblade for flare, and then the flood gates are open.

And to be fair to WotC, Base attack is pretty important because it's one of the few things in the entire game that there isn't a Feat that raises it. There's not a single one.

Though, by saying that, someone has invented a homebrew feat that increases the base attack bonus by one.

Base Attack lets you qualify for key combat feats, opens the doors for multiple attacks per round, and generally is pretty nice to have.

[sirpercival]

With the addition of invocations, this should really be a 3/4 BAB class at best (not that BAB is worth as much as WotC thinks it is... but still).

The reason for the full BAB is that Nullify is based on BAB.  But I can just change it to be based on class level, I guess... and then drop to 3/4.

[sirpercival]

With the addition of invocations, this should really be a 3/4 BAB class at best (not that BAB is worth as much as WotC thinks it is... but still).

The reason for the full BAB is that Nullify is based on BAB.  But I can just change it to be based on class level, I guess... and then drop to 3/4.

This change has been made.

The following invocations may be of interest (pulled from my homebrew here and here).

Thank you!  I may indeed steal those.

[Garryl]

Extra Nullify gives +3 uses/day. Nullify uses are by encounter. Is this a typo? If not, how does it work?

[Sneaky_Sable]

I also agree that those invocations are pretty boss. All they'd need is a flavor change and they'd be great!

Of course, you'll be too busy negating character sheets to really worry about whether or not they can see

[phaedrusxy]

Unfamiliar with Swordsage, but would anything it has stack with the Void Strike? I don't think anything would, but now I'm curious.

You can deliver touch attacks as part of an unarmed strike (I forget if this was from the FAQ or what, but it seemed like a very generic rule). So you should be able to punch someone and add your Void Strike damage on top of it. The Unarmed Swordsage gets the unarmed strike progression of a monk, plus wisdom to AC, martial maneuvers and stances, and a few other things. One of the stances gives you Sneak Attack dice, which should also stack for damage, and the Craven feat adds more damage to that based on character level.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Actually even better, the Sneak Attack dice would become the same "type" of damage as the Void Strike, ergo they would circumvent damage to.

Well my work here is done. Time to build ponies in D&D.

[sirpercival]

Extra Nullify gives +3 uses/day. Nullify uses are by encounter. Is this a typo? If not, how does it work?

Like magnets.

(Yes, it's a typo.  I'll fix it.)