Nullblade [base]

[Ithamar]

Hopefully this isn't too much thread-necro, but I just saw this class today and really like it.  Have you developed any fluff for it by chance?  Has it been playtested at all?

Also, the nullstrike can be used to make iterative touch attacks with, but could you two-weapon fight with it?  Or use it to make AoO's?

[sirpercival]

Hopefully this isn't too much thread-necro, but I just saw this class today and really like it. 

Yay!  A homebrewer's dream

Have you developed any fluff for it by chance?

Not really, no. I kinda suck at that stuff...   

Has it been playtested at all?

Not that I know of, sadly...

Also, the nullstrike can be used to make iterative touch attacks with, but could you two-weapon fight with it?  Or use it to make AoO's?

You can't nullstrike with your off-hand, but you can wield another weapon with it.  And yes, you should be able to make AoOs.

[Ithamar]

I think I'll hit up a DM and see if he'll let me play it.  I'll keep you posted.

[Ithamar]

Got permission to use the class!   

It is for a gestalt game, starting at level 1.  I'm thinking of pairing it with Swift & Deadly Druid for the obvious WIS synergy.  Maybe going Neutral Good so I can grab Intuitive Attack and make this guy really SAD.   

I was just re-reading and saw this:

Whenever a nullblade of 9th level or higher successfully damages a creature more than once with his voidstrike attack in the same round, the creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 nullblade level + Wisdom mod) for the second and each subsequent attack or take 1d6 Constitution drain as the creature's substance is permanently disrupted.  Creatures which do not have a Constitution score (such as those of the Construct or Undead type) instead take Strength damage.

Undead are immune to damage (or drain) to their physical ability scores, and constucts are immune to all ability damage (or drain).  Perhaps impose some other condition?  Or was this specifically meant to by-pass that immunity somehow?  What about incorporeal undead that also lack a STR score?

[sirpercival]

Got permission to use the class!   

Me too!

It is for a gestalt game, starting at level 1.  I'm thinking of pairing it with Swift & Deadly Druid for the obvious WIS synergy.  Maybe going Neutral Good so I can grab Intuitive Attack and make this guy really SAD.   

That could be pretty cool... could also try PsyWar or Ardent, that could work extremely well.  Or, Swordsage with the Null Blade feat.  Can you imagine Time Stands Still with maxed Voidstrike? 

I was just re-reading and saw this:

Whenever a nullblade of 9th level or higher successfully damages a creature more than once with his voidstrike attack in the same round, the creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 nullblade level + Wisdom mod) for the second and each subsequent attack or take 1d6 Constitution drain as the creature's substance is permanently disrupted.  Creatures which do not have a Constitution score (such as those of the Construct or Undead type) instead take Strength damage.

Undead are immune to damage (or drain) to their physical ability scores, and constucts are immune to all ability damage (or drain).  Perhaps impose some other condition?  Or was this specifically meant to by-pass that immunity somehow?  What about incorporeal undead that also lack a STR score?

Oh... crap.  I forgot about that immunity.  By the flavor it should work on constructs too... should I make it Cha instead?  I dunno.  Anyone else have an opinion on this?

[sirpercival]

Just had another thought.  It's MAD Wis/Cha, but if you can swing it, a Nullblade//Wardancer with the Null Blade feat would be... just... nuts.  They get a million attacks.

[Ithamar]

PsyWar might be fun actually.  I've only ever dabbled in psionics, and this might be a good chance.  I considered Swordsage already as well.  Could you use the Voidstrike attack/ability with a martial strike?

[sirpercival]

I would rule yes. It's in place of a regular attack.  I wouldn't push it, though... but if you have the Null Blade feat, then absolutely.

[sirpercival]

I was just re-reading and saw this:

Whenever a nullblade of 9th level or higher successfully damages a creature more than once with his voidstrike attack in the same round, the creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 nullblade level + Wisdom mod) for the second and each subsequent attack or take 1d6 Constitution drain as the creature's substance is permanently disrupted.  Creatures which do not have a Constitution score (such as those of the Construct or Undead type) instead take Strength damage.

Undead are immune to damage (or drain) to their physical ability scores, and constucts are immune to all ability damage (or drain).  Perhaps impose some other condition?  Or was this specifically meant to by-pass that immunity somehow?  What about incorporeal undead that also lack a STR score?

Oh... crap.  I forgot about that immunity.  By the flavor it should work on constructs too... should I make it Cha instead?  I dunno.  Anyone else have an opinion on this?

bump

[Sneaky_Sable]

Undead substitute their Charisma for their Con in many things, so this makes sense.

Charisma is your strength of self, your confidence and your belief in yourself, essentially. By the book's inference, Undead use their belief in themselves to bolster their existence in this world. "I am, therefore I am." sorta. By turning a Constitution Drain into a Charisma drain against the Undead, you essentially dispel that self-confidence, and thus, achieve the same goal.

I support the Charisma Drain idea. Plan. Thing.

[Ithamar]

Still need something for constructs though, since they are immune to all sorts of ability drain or damage.  Perhaps just something simple like they need to make a will save vs. being dazed for 1d4 rounds or whatnot.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Or just leave it as is and not try to make a character class that can do everything.

[sirpercival]

Or just leave it as is and not try to make a character class that can do everything.

Well, I can't leave it as it is because at the moment it makes no sense.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Okay, so it the class needs an answer to everything , then give them this:

Whenever a Nullblade would score a critical hit against a Construct, they can choose to either deal +2d6 points of damage OR force the Construct to make a Willpower or Fortitude Save (DC 10 + Nullblade Level + Nullblade Wisdom Modifier) or be Held for 1d6 Rounds.

[Garryl]

Undead substitute their Charisma for their Con in many things, so this makes sense.

Charisma is your strength of self, your confidence and your belief in yourself, essentially. By the book's inference, Undead use their belief in themselves to bolster their existence in this world. "I am, therefore I am." sorta. By turning a Constitution Drain into a Charisma drain against the Undead, you essentially dispel that self-confidence, and thus, achieve the same goal.

I support the Charisma Drain idea. Plan. Thing.

Technically, they only use it for Concentration checks. Many undead printed later on in 3.5's development cycle started using it for various other things, including hit points, but those are only granted by specific abilities. Plus, they're flat out immune to ability drain (ability damage to mental ability scores only is okay). That still doesn't address Constructs, who rarely use their Charisma scores (if ever) and are completely immune to ability damage and drain of all types.

[sirpercival]

So how do you think I should deal with this?

[Sneaky_Sable]

So how do you think I should deal with this?

Rejoice whenever one of your Nullblade PC's complains that there's a creature in Dungeons and Dragons that they have to worry about? I go with that.

[Quillwraith]

I am randomly inspired to make PrCs for Nullblades. Is that okay with you?

[sirpercival]

I am randomly inspired to make PrCs for Nullblades. Is that okay with you?

Perfectly.

[Quillwraith]

I am randomly inspired to make PrCs for Nullblades. Is that okay with you?

Perfectly.

Here's one.