Nullblade [base]

[phaedrusxy]

I like it better, but I'm not sure why you kept the cap on the level of effects it can nullify to 1 behind what a full spellcaster could produce. Just never give them the ability as a free action (multiple immediate ones is quite good), but let it work on whatever they successfully make the check against. It annoys me enough that I wouldn't play the class as is. If I'm 7th level, I want to be able to Nullify the NPC wizard's Black Tentacles, not his Stinking Cloud.

[sirpercival]

But... but... I fixed that. 

EDIT: Hmm... I like your suggestion about the free vs immediates, though.  I'll change it.

[Nanshork]

There's a text vs. table issue with Nullify Spell, the text is a spell level behind.

[sirpercival]

There's a text vs. table issue with Nullify Spell, the text is a spell level behind.

Oh.  Oops! I will fixify that.

[Nanshork]

There's a text vs. table issue with Nullify Spell, the text is a spell level behind.

Oh.  Oops! I will fixify that.

Hooray!  I bet that's what Phaedrus was complaining about.

[phaedrusxy]

There's a text vs. table issue with Nullify Spell, the text is a spell level behind.

Oh.  Oops! I will fixify that.

Hooray!  I bet that's what Phaedrus was complaining about.

Yeah, well, text over table is RAW. So... 

[sirpercival]

There's a text vs. table issue with Nullify Spell, the text is a spell level behind.

Oh.  Oops! I will fixify that.

Hooray!  I bet that's what Phaedrus was complaining about.

Yeah, well, text over table is RAW. So... 

How does it look now?  Any suggestions for hgh-level abilities?

How about at 20th level, MDJ at will but it doesn't affect items?

[Jackinthegreen]

The ability to create a dead magic zone, or force an item or creature to be under such an effect, seems like it would be fitting here.  Full disjunction is too much, but rendering a magical item or creature impotent for a number of rounds equal to the Wis modifier should prove to be powerful yet balanced.  Having it work on artifacts might be too much though since suppressing an artifact for even one round will almost certainly piss off the deity.

[sirpercival]

Oh yeah!  Dead magic zone works perfectly (especially since all of these abilities are Ex).  I'll add that in.

[sirpercival]

OK, I added the dead magic zone ability, and thought up another ability for 19th level.  So, now it's done barring any other changes you guys suggest

[Garryl]

At 19th level (or maybe 20th if you want to be very capstoney), maybe start nullifying epic spells?

Nullify Ability overlaps with Nullify Spell (maneuvers, at least, are explicitly extraordinary and/or supernatural).

Is Voidstrike supposed to be a standard action to use or in place of an attack? As written, it doesn't actually say it's in place of an attack (just that it's a melee touch attack), so it defaults to a standard action, which at 1d4/level kinda sucks. Improved Voidstrike's reference to damaging multiple times in a round implies that it's in place of an attack.

Will of the Void: Not quite Divine Grace, but close enough. Hokely dokely.

Touch of the Void: If you use extra immediate actions, how many swift actions do you use up form your next turn?

The class still feels like it's missing something (did you see what I did there, because the class is all about nothing and nothingness and... I'll be quiet now). You can say "no" a lot and in many ways (well, actually, it's pretty much the same way over and over, but it's contextually different-ish). But isn't one of the tenets of good DMing saying "yes" instead? I think that's true for character classes and homebrewing, too. Or, in other words, give this sucker something to actively do, rather than reactively undo.

[The_Laughing_Man]

This looks very interesting, good job! And some comments.

Maybe you should mention that nullify spell also nullifies 0th level spells for completeness sake.

Can you combine voidstrike with your favorite weapon? It is touch melee attack currently.

I see you nixed the ability to nullify ongoing effects. I would like to see it added back, call null heart surge, just kidding ;-p

What about not specifying undead and construct, instead just mention no con score creatures.

How about complementing this class with optional feats? Like Extra Nullify: get 4 more nullify attempts. You can take this feat multiple times and it stacks with itself.

[sirpercival]

At 19th level (or maybe 20th if you want to be very capstoney), maybe start nullifying epic spells?

That would be a useless ability for any game where Epic Spells don't exist.  Instead, in the Epic Nullblade you'll get the ability to nullify >9th spells, as well as Epic spells in a separate progression that I haven't figured out yet.

Nullify Ability overlaps with Nullify Spell (maneuvers, at least, are explicitly extraordinary and/or supernatural).

Yes, but lots of creatures have non-maneuver abilities that are covered with Nullify Ability, so I think it's still a valid usage.

Is Voidstrike supposed to be a standard action to use or in place of an attack? As written, it doesn't actually say it's in place of an attack (just that it's a melee touch attack), so it defaults to a standard action, which at 1d4/level kinda sucks. Improved Voidstrike's reference to damaging multiple times in a round implies that it's in place of an attack.

Yes, in place of an attack.  Is "attack action" valid terminology to use here?  I'm not sure whether that actually has meaning or is just player-defined jargon.

Will of the Void: Not quite Divine Grace, but close enough. Hokely dokely.

Touch of the Void: If you use extra immediate actions, how many swift actions do you use up form your next turn?

You only get 1 normally, and you use up that 1.  If you get more swift actions from somewhere else, it's usually on a pay-per-action basis (like Divine Impetus or things which require spending charges) which wouldn't interact.  Are there any ways to just flat-out get automatic extra swift actions that I don't know about?

The class still feels like it's missing something (did you see what I did there, because the class is all about nothing and nothingness and... I'll be quiet now). You can say "no" a lot and in many ways (well, actually, it's pretty much the same way over and over, but it's contextually different-ish). But isn't one of the tenets of good DMing saying "yes" instead? I think that's true for character classes and homebrewing, too. Or, in other words, give this sucker something to actively do, rather than reactively undo.

Yeah... I know what you mean.  There are a couple abilities (voidstrike, enter the void, terminate) which do things, but not much.  That's the problem I've had with this from the beginning.  What does this class actually do with its standard and move actions?  At the moment it's basically "run up and poke things till they fall over", which is kind of boring... but I'm still at a loss for what to add.

[sirpercival]

This looks very interesting, good job! And some comments.

Thank you!

Maybe you should mention that nullify spell also nullifies 0th level spells for completeness sake.

Yes, I'll clarify the wording there.

Can you combine voidstrike with your favorite weapon? It is touch melee attack currently.

As written, no.  If I'm adding feats, I can add a feat that lets you do that... but I intentionally left it out so that you couldn't do much to augment the damage.  I mean, at 20th level you get 20d4 for 4 attacks base.  What if you're using a valorous weapon and items of Lion's Charge and Haste (since you have UMD)?  That's 200d4 untyped damage, and only the most basic optimization.  Granted it's less than an ubercharger build, but I think having a feat tax on it is ok.

I see you nixed the ability to nullify ongoing effects. I would like to see it added back, call null heart surge, just kidding ;-p

Was the entire statement a joke, or just the name?  Because that's the whole point of Terminate... nullify counters things as they happen, terminate takes out existing effects (like annoying people).

What about not specifying undead and construct, instead just mention no con score creatures.

...alright.  Other than awakened trees, is there anything else which doesn't have a Con score besides Constructs and Undead?

How about complementing this class with optional feats? Like Extra Nullify: get 4 more nullify attempts. You can take this feat multiple times and it stacks with itself.

Yes, something like that will happen.  I just want to nail down the finalized version of the class before I start adding supplementary material.


I wonder if Quill would accept another player, and if someone would play one of these.

[Garryl]

Nullify Ability overlaps with Nullify Spell (maneuvers, at least, are explicitly extraordinary and/or supernatural).

Yes, but lots of creatures have non-maneuver abilities that are covered with Nullify Ability, so I think it's still a valid usage.

Not saying you should get rid of it, just pointing out the overlap in a specific (albeit not uncommon) case. Interestingly, because of the different target numbers, one way of nullifying maneuvers may be better than the other in certain cases.

Is Voidstrike supposed to be a standard action to use or in place of an attack? As written, it doesn't actually say it's in place of an attack (just that it's a melee touch attack), so it defaults to a standard action, which at 1d4/level kinda sucks. Improved Voidstrike's reference to damaging multiple times in a round implies that it's in place of an attack.

Yes, in place of an attack.  Is "attack action" valid terminology to use here?  I'm not sure whether that actually has meaning or is just player-defined jargon.

I think "attack action" technically refers to taking a standard action to make a single attack, but nobody uses it that way. I personally prefer "attack option" instead, although I haven't actually had the opportunity to use that bit of jargon since I discovered it so I don't know how well it actually works. "In place of a normal attack" would probably be the clearest and most explicit term.

Will of the Void: Not quite Divine Grace, but close enough. Hokely dokely.

Touch of the Void: If you use extra immediate actions, how many swift actions do you use up form your next turn?

You only get 1 normally, and you use up that 1.  If you get more swift actions from somewhere else, it's usually on a pay-per-action basis (like Divine Impetus or things which require spending charges) which wouldn't interact.  Are there any ways to just flat-out get automatic extra swift actions that I don't know about?

Zen Fundamentalist, attribute list IV?

[sirpercival]

Will of the Void: Not quite Divine Grace, but close enough. Hokely dokely.

Touch of the Void: If you use extra immediate actions, how many swift actions do you use up form your next turn?

You only get 1 normally, and you use up that 1.  If you get more swift actions from somewhere else, it's usually on a pay-per-action basis (like Divine Impetus or things which require spending charges) which wouldn't interact.  Are there any ways to just flat-out get automatic extra swift actions that I don't know about?

Zen Fundamentalist, attribute list IV?

 

Yes, I don't think that's something I'm going to worry about at the moment, especially since that class is going under the knife in the near future.  Who knows if that ability will even exist?

[The_Laughing_Man]

Can you combine voidstrike with your favorite weapon? It is touch melee attack currently.

As written, no.  If I'm adding feats, I can add a feat that lets you do that... but I intentionally left it out so that you couldn't do much to augment the damage.  I mean, at 20th level you get 20d4 for 4 attacks base.  What if you're using a valorous weapon and items of Lion's Charge and Haste (since you have UMD)?  That's 200d4 untyped damage, and only the most basic optimization.  Granted it's less than an ubercharger build, but I think having a feat tax on it is ok.

I think there are spells that let you have a weapon that does melee touch attacks (like Ice Axe). So you could augment the damage already now.

I see you nixed the ability to nullify ongoing effects. I would like to see it added back, call null heart surge, just kidding ;-p

Was the entire statement a joke, or just the name?  Because that's the whole point of Terminate... nullify counters things as they happen, terminate takes out existing effects (like annoying people).

When I was leasurely reading this there was a flurry of updates. I think I misread something. So.. um, carry on?

What about not specifying undead and construct, instead just mention no con score creatures.

...alright.  Other than awakened trees, is there anything else which doesn't have a Con score besides Constructs and Undead?

Not that I can think of any. Some homebrews maybe? In any case, I suggest that be on the safe side and mention them (undead and constructs) as examples.

How about complementing this class with optional feats? Like Extra Nullify: get 4 more nullify attempts. You can take this feat multiple times and it stacks with itself.

Yes, something like that will happen.  I just want to nail down the finalized version of the class before I start adding supplementary material.

Cool.

[sirpercival]

Can you combine voidstrike with your favorite weapon? It is touch melee attack currently.

As written, no.  If I'm adding feats, I can add a feat that lets you do that... but I intentionally left it out so that you couldn't do much to augment the damage.  I mean, at 20th level you get 20d4 for 4 attacks base.  What if you're using a valorous weapon and items of Lion's Charge and Haste (since you have UMD)?  That's 200d4 untyped damage, and only the most basic optimization.  Granted it's less than an ubercharger build, but I think having a feat tax on it is ok.

I think there are spells that let you have a weapon that does melee touch attacks (like Ice Axe). So you could augment the damage already now.

Oh, hm.  Is that really how those things interact?  I don't think that's how it works.  You don't get to use voidstrike whenever you make a melee touch attack... it just requires a melee touch attack to use.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I think the wording you had there does not allow Ice Axe to be used with voidstrike (It has changed already). So you have your bases covered. Now on the other hand if you would change the wording so: ..whenever you make a successful melee touch attack you can add 1d4 etc.. Then Ice Axe would be golden.

[The_Laughing_Man]

How about ranged capabilities on higher levels? Like, you can use voidstrike as a ranged touch attack with 10 ft increment.