Explosve Born of Three Thunders Acid Fog?

[Captnq]

Okay, Acid Fog

ACID FOG

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- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK (3.0)
- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK 1 (3.5)
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]
Level: Blighter 6, Dread Necromancer 6, Maho-Tsukai (3.0) 7, River Domain 7, Sorcerer/Wizard 6, Water Domain 7, Warmage 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Fog spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Acid fog creates a billowing mass of misty vapors similar to that produced by a solid fog spell. In addition to slowing creatures down and obscuring sight, this spell’s vapors are highly acidic. Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.
Arcane Material Component: A pinch of dried, powdered peas combined with powdered animal hoof.

I energy Substitution (Electricity), I born of the three thunders it, I add explosive, I sudden widen the spell.

1. Can I do it?

2. Now, explosive spell says you go to the closest edge. The Fog never goes higher then 40 feet. Does that mean every round the spell shoots everything straight up?

3. Unattended houses always fail their saving throws. Does that mean that every house in the area of effect is launched 40 feet straight up every round?

3a. Would it also effect the ground? Would the spell wind up digging itself a hole and disappearing into the underdark?

4. I energy Substitution Sonic for Fire. I add Blistering. Is the +12 damage all fire, or does it become Electrical 6 / Fire 6?

5. I add energy substitution Electrical to cold. Can I do THAT? Because then I could add flash frost and another +12 damage.

6. I stack on a bunch of crap so that I shoe horn in Persistent Spell. Can I use it? Because the spell expands every round, does it have a FIXED area? I cannot move it, so it is fixed to one location, but it expands, so it's area grows.

7. I use an extend rod and the thing now lasts for 48 hours. 28,800 rounds. 40 feet a round. 218 miles in radius. 149,550 Square miles, or a little smaller then California. How would you stop it?

8. How could I stop you from stopping it?

9. What would happen if I made it a living spell?

10. Dropping the explosive crap and going back to basics, I instead energy sub Cold and make it utter cold and Fell animate, it would kill everything living, but everything would rise up as a zombie, being injured by the cold, but healed by the negative energy so it cancels out. I persistent it and Utter Cold Fog California. How could I command an entire nation of Zombies to do my bidding?

[sirpercival]

I don't think you can add Energy Sub more than once, though I may be wrong.

Also, the 40-foot height is likely to NOT be the closest edge.

[Captnq]

Also, the 40-foot height is likely to NOT be the closest edge.

My widened spell expands 40 feet a round. In two rounds, if you are in the middle, the closest edge is 80 feet away, unless you count straight up.

Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to figure this out before I post my summary of Acid Fog and exactly what you can do with it.

[Captnq]

I don't think you can add Energy Sub more than once, though I may be wrong.

AH! I see, No. It doesn't state that, but the all or nothing of the feat makes it implicit. If I tried to use the feat again, it would turn both Sonic and Electrical to fire, not JUST one. Thank you.

[sirpercival]

Oh ok, I see the confusion. I don't believe that the "fog spreads 20 feet" part means that it increases by 20 feet each round.  If you follow back to Fog Cloud (which is what this is based on), I think it's just that you designate a center point, and then it spreads out into the designated area and stops.

[wotmaniac]

Oh ok, I see the confusion. I don't believe that the "fog spreads 20 feet" part means that it increases by 20 feet each round.  If you follow back to Fog Cloud (which is what this is based on), I think it's just that you designate a center point, and then it spreads out into the designated area and stops.

yeah, "spread" is in reference to the type of effect -- as opposed to "burst" or "emanation"

[Captnq]

Oh ok, I see the confusion. I don't believe that the "fog spreads 20 feet" part means that it increases by 20 feet each round.  If you follow back to Fog Cloud (which is what this is based on), I think it's just that you designate a center point, and then it spreads out into the designated area and stops.

Holy Crap.

I've been having fog cloud SPREAD 20 feet a round.

Wizards have been using it to clear out dungeons in my campaign of low level vermin.

[altpersona]

no twinned / repeating / invisible ?

[Captnq]

no twinned / repeating / invisible ?

I'm just clarifying. The actual write up will be elsewhere.

[Unbeliever]

Explosive spell is not all that well-written.  But, I don't think they contemplated the knocking you up vertically, even though it is pretty awesome.  Otherwise, it would probably mention falling damage. 

Then again, since a great many D&D area spells affect squares/spheres, going up will only be the shortest way out for someone at the dead center of the effect, and even then it would be equidistant to go to the edge along the ground.  So, I'd probably err on the side of moving them along the ground -- D&D doesn't do great with 3 dimensions.

Also, Explosive Spell says "any creature" so, no, you can't affect houses.  Unless they happen to be alive ... like the dread gazebo.

[snakeman830]

Explosive spell is not all that well-written.  But, I don't think they contemplated the knocking you up vertically, even though it is pretty awesome.  Otherwise, it would probably mention falling damage. 

Then again, since a great many D&D area spells affect squares/spheres, going up will only be the shortest way out for someone at the dead center of the effect, and even then it would be equidistant to go to the edge along the ground.  So, I'd probably err on the side of moving them along the ground -- D&D doesn't do great with 3 dimensions.

Also, Explosive Spell says "any creature" so, no, you can't affect houses.  Unless they happen to be alive ... like the dread gazebo.

Snowcasting/Flash Frost/Energy Sub/Born of Three Thunders/Explosive Control Winds.  The vertical dimension is 40ft.  The horizontal dimension is much, much larger (and scales with caster level)

[nijineko]

all of your questions that deal with explosive are moot. explosive metamagic cannot be applied to either acid fog (nor control winds) because the spell in question must have require a reflex save before applying the explosive metamagic. now if there is a way to change the saving throw... sounds like a good candidate for a metamagic feat.

[Captnq]

all of your questions that deal with explosive are moot. explosive metamagic cannot be applied to either acid fog (nor control winds) because the spell in question must have require a reflex save before applying the explosive metamagic. now if there is a way to change the saving throw... sounds like a good candidate for a metamagic feat.

You didn't read the chain of metamagic feats

Energy Sub (Electrical)
Born of the three thunders (Makes you take a fort save then a reflex save)
Now you can add explosive.

[nijineko]

ah, bite. i didn't reread the bott feat. =P thank you for clarifying. that is a nice, if feat intensive stunt.

in the event then, my thoughts:

the wording on explosive would seem to indicate that the intent was that the spell itself have an area and a reflex save.

however, that is implicit, not explicit so, proceeding....

the combination of feats would cause a caught creature caught in the effect to take damage. if any amount of damage is taken, then the creature must make a fort save. if that is failed, only the creatures which failed would make a reflex save. thus the only creatures that would be affected by explosive would be the few that took damage AND failed the fort AND the reflex save.

unless the spell has the (object) tag in the saving throws entry, it might be problematic to argue applying saving throws to objects.

i suppose you could apply the energy substitution twice if you have the feats for it. boost the level each time though. and i would think it would only sub the specific energy you target, not both.

once a spell is energy subbed, does the energy type of the spell change to the new energy type? that would seem logical. i think that if you subbed out the electricity, it would no longer be able to be a bottt spell.

i think the growth options have already been covered and nixed.

[Captnq]

the combination of feats would cause a caught creature caught in the effect to take damage. if any amount of damage is taken, then the creature must make a fort save. if that is failed, only the creatures which failed would make a reflex save. thus the only creatures that would be affected by explosive would be the few that took damage AND failed the fort AND the reflex save.

It's a theoretical to explore the possibilties, so assuming someone stupid enough to do all this... But yes, he would have to fail two saving throws.

unless the spell has the (object) tag in the saving throws entry, it might be problematic to argue applying saving throws to objects.

Oh, I was corrected. Explosive spell states 'creature'. Inanimate objects are immune to the explosion. Just the nature of magic, I guess.

i suppose you could apply the energy substitution twice if you have the feats for it. boost the level each time though. and i would think it would only sub the specific energy you target, not both.

Actually, energy substitution is not selective. If I apply it, it applies to the entire spell, not half the spell. So, I could use Lightning bolt, make it Three Thunders, then apply Energy Sub (fire) and the ENTIRE spell is now fire, not Fire and sonic or Fire and Electrical. It's all or nothing. Now, you can choose the order you apply feats, but once Three Thunders has been applied, you can wipe out both sonic and electrical or you can keep both, but that's what you have to live with.

That said, one could, in theory, cast Acid Sheath on yourself, cast Acid Fog spell making it 2d6+2. Then you could make it cold, apply flash frost (2d6+14), change to fire, apply firey spell (2d6+16) apply Blistering (2d6+30), then make it eletrical, apply three thunders, then make it explosive.

Then the spell implodes inside your head from reaching the Metamagic 'Stephen Hawking' limit and it colapses into a singularity sucking you down to Planck levels. But we are talking 'Theory' here.

[nijineko]

heheh. you just gave me this weird vision of the metamagic police laying smack down on some hapless over optimizer. they looked like an insane cross between hawking in his mobility device and daleks. thank you, oh so very much.