Author Topic: OP players travel  (Read 7828 times)

Offline ariasderros

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OP players travel
« on: May 12, 2012, 11:19:26 PM »
I've been having a problem with the group I DM for (well only one problem that I'm asking for help with).

As a DM, I want to force my players to use standard, slow methods of travel at times. Mostly through the Underdark.

To manage this, there are mountains that are so tall they supersede the atmosphere, thus you should not be able to fly over them.

The mountains are interdimentional, and block Conjuration (teleportation) effects that pass through, instead leaving you at the edge of the mountains. Essentially, as you are whisked through the Astral, you hit a wall and are ejected from the teleport at that point.

They found a way around.

I allow any official 3.5 content, Any.

In my group we have access to all of the WotC published and most of the Dragon magazines and other assorted.

I allow any RAW builds. Subject to my interpretation of the rules. So long as you remember that Mirrors of Opposition don't offer saves   :smirk.

Necklace of Adaptation + multiple Schema of Energy Immunity + flying magic items = space travel.

They are getting from country to county by being astronauts.

This is the kind of critical thinking I normally encourage, but this time it is damn inconvenient.

How do I limit this?
I'm not certain as to whether I want to make it completely in-viable for them to do this at times, but I do want to make it so they can't do this always.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 11:58:54 PM »
Next time they try it, have them have a run-in with the fantasy equivalent of the Federal Aeronautic Administration who tell them that unregulated exta-atmospheric flight is illegal, and are prepared to enforce the issue.  After all, if this is a common issue, the PCs can't be the first people to think of it.  This has the added advantage of letting them still be able to use their fast-travel method sometimes, when they can acquire a single-flight licence (ie, when you say they can). 

Alternatively, throw a massive wall of force over the country they're trying to land in.  Probably easier, but less justifiable within the rules. 
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 02:01:32 AM »
Next time they try it, have them have a run-in with the fantasy equivalent of the Federal Aeronautic Administration who tell them that unregulated exta-atmospheric flight is illegal, and are prepared to enforce the issue.  After all, if this is a common issue, the PCs can't be the first people to think of it.  This has the added advantage of letting them still be able to use their fast-travel method sometimes, when they can acquire a single-flight licence (ie, when you say they can). 

Alternatively, throw a massive wall of force over the country they're trying to land in.  Probably easier, but less justifiable within the rules.

On the first one, I'd like to stay away from Dick Moving them.
Now if there were space dragons or some such, then that'd be different.
Anything I do will be argued about incessantly by one of them though, so if there are space dragons, I'd like to be able to pull up the material. Granted, I could just tell him to STFU, as I have had to before, but I'd prefer to not wear that out.

On the second, I've had cities protected by that before, and its been established that most cities do have the ability to do that as defensive measures. So it's not that far-fetched.
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Offline The_Laughing_Man

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 03:49:56 AM »
Well, there are time dragons in dragon magazine. And as we know space and time are intertwined. You could also have random dead magic zones in space to make the journey more perilous.

Offline betrayor

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2012, 05:44:33 AM »
Time Dragons are from Dragon 359,and they are insanely powerful......
They are to my knowledge the most powerful non-deity creature that was published for 3.x ...........

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2012, 06:31:35 AM »
What's the power level of the thing that's trying to prevent them from moving?  First you can start with a weirdstone or 100.  Then, to prevent space travel, you can set up a large Reverse Gravity field.

OR you could say that a certain distance away from the planet, magic stops working (depending on the magic cosmology of your world).

OR oyu could break out spelljammer and have them get captured by Neogi.  That'll ruin anyone's day.
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Offline Keldar

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2012, 07:06:54 AM »
Break out the Spelljammer.  Dragon 339 has an update, and Spelljammer.org has information on the old material.  For simplicity just use Scro or Illithid pirates as your primary space-born antagonists.  Lords of Madness actually has some material on Illithid and Neogi spacefaring.
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If you just want to send them scurrying back to the Underdark, give them a glimpse of the Spelljammer itself.  The scale alone should freak them out a bit, since it runs in the Star Destroyer size category.
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Offline pelzak

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2012, 08:44:20 AM »
The Kármán line, at 100 km (62 mi), also is often regarded as the boundary between atmosphere and outer space.

So for simplicity you can tell them that it's shorter to go via underdark than going 100 km up and then 100 km down. And there may be tale that on the top of the mountain are living force dragons  ;)

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Offline veekie

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2012, 09:16:43 AM »
I have an alternative option, though none of my players found that out yet. If you go high enough you just literally fly out of the Material Plane into another plane rather than into space.
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Offline The_Laughing_Man

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2012, 11:36:42 AM »
Astral dragons! I remember they like places with no gravity. And spelljammer stuff is good option too.

Offline Arturick

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2012, 12:11:34 PM »
Sounds like you have encounters planned in the Underdark.  So, put a McGuffin there.

"Your contact in *other side of space mountains* is the Wizard Barnak.  He's been researching a way to imprison the soul of an old enemy, and has found the only suitable material to be an exotic type of ruby treasured by the Svirfneblin living under the space mountains.  They would be loathe to part with the item, but would probably negotiate if you could clear out the nest of Hooked Horrors that has sprung up near their mines."

Alternately, I like the "Hey, I hear Force/Astral dragons live on top of the space mountains" angle.  Remember, in D&D, places that are utterly inhospitable to life have larger and more numerous apex predators.

Offline radionausea

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2012, 03:42:57 PM »
You could use the ideas from the Nightwatch series of books: that magic is entirely reliant upon the presence of living people.  When you get further away from people the less magic there is.  In space there is absolutely no magic and they fall back down to the surface, spells and items reactivating as they do to ensure they don't die. 
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Offline Braininthejar

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2012, 07:09:50 PM »
Put their goal underground. Underdark has tons of natural magic anomalies and even experienced drow are forced to take a walk from time to time.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2012, 08:12:26 PM »
Okay so I have:
Two different Space Dragons that would F*** them up, which is what I'd warned them might happen if they mad a habit of this.
Illithids in a spelljammer, which I have played before :) (The poster of porn for nerds has been my background for a while).

I was actually already somewhat thinking that there might be an outpost up there somewhere for the Flayers to be studying the sun, in order to figure out how to blacken it.

Yep, and if the Flayers happen to have the Shadow Creature template with spells active to block the sun (there are three that I know of), with no sound in space...

I really don't know why they did it when I warned them, ver batim, "you're worried about the star spawn below, so you're going to risk flying right into Cthulhu above?" (not literally, but we all have played Arkham Horror) and they understood what I'd said, but they did it anyway.

Alternately, I like the "Hey, I hear Force/Astral dragons live on top of the space mountains" angle.  Remember, in D&D, places that are utterly inhospitable to life have larger and more numerous apex predators.
This. This was already threatened. They are... Overconfident. The one who pushed the decision through has an attitude that I wouldn't dare throw anything at them that would definitively TPK them. He has even said as much.  :shakefist
So I'll T.P.Capture them with one of the two spacefarers.
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Offline Halinn

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 08:40:02 PM »
Alternately, I like the "Hey, I hear Force/Astral dragons live on top of the space mountains" angle.  Remember, in D&D, places that are utterly inhospitable to life have larger and more numerous apex predators.
This. This was already threatened. They are... Overconfident. The one who pushed the decision through has an attitude that I wouldn't dare throw anything at them that would definitively TPK them. He has even said as much.  :shakefist
So I'll T.P.Capture them with one of the two spacefarers.
You could just call his bluff. While I don't endorse having TPKs become a goal in general, it needs to be something that can happen.

Offline betrayor

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2012, 08:40:37 PM »
What level are they?
Force Dragons and Time Dragons are Epic Dragons and insanely powerful.......
Astral Dragons are not that powerful but they are True Dragons and not a pushover by any means.....

Offline ariasderros

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 11:12:41 PM »
What level are they?
Force Dragons and Time Dragons are Epic Dragons and insanely powerful.......
Astral Dragons are not that powerful but they are True Dragons and not a pushover by any means.....

If I use the dragons, it would be the Astral.
They would be able to just bypass most Astral Dragons without an issue, since the Drakes wouldn't have a reason to really care about them... unless, of course, it was Ravening.  :devil
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Offline Rejakor

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2012, 04:34:42 AM »
'Not fly over mountains' doesn't sound like what you actually WANT.

If what you want is to send them underground, sure.  Just put something they need or want down there.  Or something that they flee from to there.  Or whatever.

If you want ANY means of bypassing the mountains to be perilous and fraught, then put massive debris orbiting the planet, some of it anti-magical, filled with terrible biological weapons, all of it hinting at some kind of epic magical space conflict, or ancient civilization.  Or just skysharks.  Skysharks works too.  Make hard fights or people getting their magical boots ripped off and flung into space or whatever.  There, dangerous.

As for 'wouldn't dare TPK', I benefit there because I set up fights to be 'could kill you all' and don't fuck with them unless I have understood a rule/statblock wrong (in which case I change it on the fly to what I thought it was).  If people die, they die.

Offline kitep

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2012, 11:07:01 AM »
While I like monsters in space, I don't think it'll stop 'em.  Right now, they fly up and over.  They could also teleport up, teleport over, teleport down.  Be in the new countries before the monsters can react.

It's probably too late now, but if space was also a no-magic zone, that could put a kabosh on their plans as well.

Offline Dan2

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Re: OP players travel
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2012, 03:23:38 PM »
There are a bunch of questions you need to be able to answer before you do something.

Why do you want the players to move slowly?  Depending on the answer here, it may not even be an issue.
If it's because they're skipping all your well-designed encounters, there are a few ways to rectify things:
Design encounters for the route they take (this is primarily what has been suggested here).
Alternatively, you could just let them get to the town, complete the quest within 5 minutes, then tell them that you don't have any more prepared for today and bust out a board game.
If you wanted to not be a dick about it, you could take a moment and tell them that you've set the interesting encounters and adventures below ground.  If they actually want to play the game, they should go after them down there.

If you want the players to move slowly because it gives you leeway to create more interesting and dangerous encounters, then you need to talk to your players and explain how teleportation and flight are making it difficult to design fun encounters for the game.  Again, if you aren't playing with dicks, you can ask that they approach the game on a manageable level for you.
If they are dicks, then you might not need to be playing with them.

If you're able (and willing) to design fun encounters for the way they're approaching the game, and it's still frustrating you that they're hopping over your obstacles, be careful.  You might be power-tripping.

Another thing to look at is why the players are trying to go that particular way.
If it's because they're concerned about how difficult the challenges might be underground, then feel free to use some of the suggestions here, and warn them (as you already have) that the challenges in space are not going to be any easier.

If they're trying to complete their quest most efficiently, then you can help your case by giving them a minimal amount of reward, and tossing a few, simple, go-here-kill-this quests their way to reinforce that combat is the primary source of XP and loot.

They might be looking for payouts other than leveling up and winning combat.  If so, then you need to be careful with the group.  D&D is a game where killing monsters and taking their stuff.  If killing monster and taking their stuff isn't what they want to be doing, you may need to transition to a game that does what they want to do.

If they trust you to make the game fun for them, regardless of what they do, fantastic!  You're already doing very well.  Use the tips here to make your new battlegrounds and encounters and live up to their expectations.
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