Author Topic: Mirror Image and the attacker closing his eyes... discrepancy?  (Read 1851 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Was looking through the old boards to find info on how mirror image stacked with blur, etc, and found a good thread:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8515.0

Near the end, someone brought up this quote from mirror image:
Quote
If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect.
The next sentence is "(Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)"

However, earlier in the spell description, we have this:
Quote
When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image.
Ergo, the images must be making noises that sound like someone moving around, casting spells, etc.

Being blinded means that "All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character."
Total concealment states: "You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies."

Well, how do you determine which square you think he occupies?  The rules on the condition of invisibility give us some clues.
Quote
A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. ... A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location.
There is also a feat from Complete Adventurer which basically gives you blindsense with a move action and a successful DC 25 Listen check.

So you can listen for the location of the individual when you have your eyes shut.  With a good enough listen check, you can pinpoint his square.  Except the caster has up to 8 images that are making the same sounds he is, so you have to pick one, because you can't use listening to tell which one is the real caster.  That means you still have to guess randomly.  Which conflicts with "if...an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect."

So, which is it?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 08:09:11 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline weenog

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Re: Mirror Image and the attacker closing his eyes... discrepancy?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 08:25:31 PM »
No idea, but it sounds like yet another reason Mindsight is badass, and Scent is nice.
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Offline darqueseid

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Re: Mirror Image and the attacker closing his eyes... discrepancy?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 01:09:08 PM »
I would say that you can't use vision or hearing since the images are also actually making noise.  I feel it is a discrepancy, and I would take the logical tack that listen checks would count as hearing.

Tremorsense or scent would possibly be able to discern the location, since the spell doesn't mention that the images have a smell.   

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Mirror Image and the attacker closing his eyes... discrepancy?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 01:17:21 PM »
It is contradictory, and I don't think WotC has ever clarified it. I always played it as you can close your eyes and ignore the spell, but you suffer the normal penalties for being "blind". The spell is easily one of the best low level defensive spells. So I think a little "nerfing" via interpretation on ambiguous parts isn't a bad thing.
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