Author Topic: Psion Warforged  (Read 8833 times)

Offline Cross_Hawke

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Psion Warforged
« on: May 17, 2012, 11:54:35 PM »
I'm looking to make a Lv. 5 Warforged Psychic Warrior. Any suggestions?

Offline rot42

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 01:10:42 AM »
Do you only need the build to function at fifth level, or is that just where you start? What kind of party role are you looking to fill?

Every Psychic Warrior wants Linked Power and Psionic Meditation. The Mantled Warrior ACF is solid; I recommend Freedom.

Claws of the Beast power + Extra Slam feat is an easy way to bump up your repertoire of attacks if you go that route. At manifester level 5 you only need two more points to bring your Claws up to 2d6; Torc of Power Preservation is just under half your wealth, and Overchannel or Midnight Augmentation (Magic of Incarnum) can give the other.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 05:59:13 AM by rot42 »

Offline Tshern

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2012, 07:28:23 AM »
It is also good form to mention the books you have available, possible houserules, ability scores and other vital information about the character creation. Your post does not give much work with.
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Offline midnight_v

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 11:17:32 AM »
One interesting and apparently suprising thing I've done is take:
 Expanded Knowledge: Energy Ray.
It solves a lot of problems
Since you have all the main elemental dmg types built into 1 power and the feats to support it.

 As a psywar (especially low level) you main powers are Expansion, and claws of the beast. I'm not going to assume you have the complet psionic for the purposes of this.
Getting karmic strike will make you a serious damage engine at the cost your feats.
It'd look like this:
Feat Progression
1st : Combat reflexes
Pw1: Dodge
Pw2: Comat expertise
3rd: Karmic strike
Pw5: Adamantine Body or Expanded knowledge: energy ray, OR Linked power(If you have the complet psionic)
Level 6 (Psionic meditation)

  Now obviously you can take Adamantine body at level 1 and be one of the toughest dudes on the block just out the box.
  I don't know what level you're starting at, OR what books you have available so different things could be going on. IF you have the Complete Psionic available Then yeah you want linked power and psionic meditation as listed above.
   However, it is my opinion that often you won't have the pp to sustain such a thing for many fights at low level without a recharge. Many, many people woul have the opionion that having a recharge mechanic is a "gimmic" or "broke", I make no moral judgements on that as it varies in each persons mind and at thier gaming table so no ones judement about such thing save yours matters.

I can give much more accurate info, and a better build,  once you provide the rest of you build allowances.

*note there are MANY ways to go with this... level 5 is nice cause if you want to kill things with a greatsword you still can without stretching, and the bulk of creatures aren't attacking your saves/ability scores yet.




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Offline snakeman830

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 03:58:56 PM »
Admantine Body MUST be taken at level 1 if you take it at all.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 04:19:31 PM »
Psion Warforged also works just fine,
instead of using Psy War.  Shaper is the
discipline, and builds of it are still around.

Key power is Psi Repair Damage targeting yourself.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm
And otherwise build like a PsyWar.
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Offline midnight_v

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 04:22:55 PM »
Admantine Body MUST be taken at level 1 if you take it at all.
He's right, I... I dont' know what the hell I was thinking then, I think I was just tired. +1 Respect to snakeman.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2012, 04:28:10 PM »
Psion Warforged also works just fine,
instead of using Psy War.  Shaper is the
discipline, and builds of it are still around.

Key power is Psi Repair Damage targeting yourself.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm
And otherwise build like a PsyWar.
Throw in Psicrystal Affinity and the Share Pain and Vigor powers, and you can take a lot more damage than the psiwarrior could, too.

If you actually want to melee, boosting your offense is a bit tougher with a psion, though (at least until you get access to Metamorphosis...). You're better off making astral constructs and letting them do the fighting for you.

There is always the trick of making a lot of poison via Minor Creation and coating yourself, your weapon, and your psicrystal in it, though. I like the Sassone Leaf Residue, as it does actual hit point damage.
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Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2012, 05:22:30 PM »
One interesting and apparently suprising thing I've done is take:
 Expanded Knowledge: Energy Ray.
It solves a lot of problems
Since you have all the main elemental dmg types built into 1 power and the feats to support it.
That is going to hemorrhage power points like nobody's business, and psychic warriors do NOT have enough to support that as a viable and frequently-used tactic.

Take Dissolving Weapon and see if you can get a party-mate with the Empower Power feat instead, and use it on your off-days on your arrows. Use those on any problems that come up (warning: does not work well on some enemies). Note that acid generally works fairly well on most objects.

As a psywar (especially low level) you main powers are Expansion, and claws of the beast. I'm not going to assume you have the complet psionic for the purposes of this.
Getting karmic strike will make you a serious damage engine at the cost your feats.
It'd look like this:
Feat Progression
1st : Combat reflexes
Pw1: Dodge
Pw2: Comat expertise
3rd: Karmic strike
Pw5: Adamantine Body or Expanded knowledge: energy ray, OR Linked power(If you have the complet psionic)
Level 6 (Psionic meditation)
Karmic strike is usually a good feat, but a psywar can generally do better, as you're burning two feats (for Dodge and Combat Expertise, which are CRAP). Do note that as mentioned above that Linked Power is pretty essential to a psywar (though they're doable without the feat), and Psionic Meditation is almost required.

  Now obviously you can take Adamantine body at level 1 and be one of the toughest dudes on the block just out the box.
It's a good feat, yes, but you can also go dragonborn and just buy some fairly cheap armor, to upgrade to full plate later. Since you want a decent Wis you might also consider a monk's belt and Inertial Armor. That way you don't use one of your oh-so-precious feats on it.

  I don't know what level you're starting at, OR what books you have available so different things could be going on. IF you have the Complete Psionic available Then yeah you want linked power and psionic meditation as listed above.
Oh yeah.

   However, it is my opinion that often you won't have the pp to sustain such a thing for many fights at low level without a recharge. Many, many people woul have the opionion that having a recharge mechanic is a "gimmic" or "broke", I make no moral judgements on that as it varies in each persons mind and at thier gaming table so no ones judement about such thing save yours matters.
PP are a definite concern, though there ARE ways to mitigate the issue (not the least of which is recharging and +1 manifester arrows).

There's also 25 gp 1st lvl power stones (great for low level manifestations on the cheap), and the Shape Soulmeld feat, and clever use of psionic feats that require you to expend or hold your focus, and tactical use of powers as levers rather than hammers. A 1 pp Expansion will go a LONG way, after all, especially if you've got a template or race that makes you Large or gives you powerful build.

I can give much more accurate info, and a better build,  once you provide the rest of you build allowances.
This is true.

Offline midnight_v

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2012, 05:50:28 PM »
Quote
Oh yeah
Yeah...
Assuming the complete psionic would be an error on the part of we optimizers
so you know providing an alternate set of options is likely a "good thing" tm.
 
 Linked power if you can get it but if you cannot...
(and I've found a lot of games at home don't allow it, mostly cause people have issue with various factor of the book no psionics as a whole) ...  karmic strike has served me pretty well, and its part and parcel of the  set up for King of Smackish builds.

 The lack of linked power, likely changes the dynamic of feat importance.

 Though I'm interesting in seeing your build stubs for life w/out it lycanthro, as you are the resident psionics expert.
  Further, what do you do if th Dm disallows some of our favorite things like Psionic "scooby snacks" etc.
  Assuredly you have a starter build in mind for...
Core, Complete(series 1), Psionics HB, and one other book likely the Tob, as its the most suggested when these things come up.
 
 Finally, and more relavently to the op, I'd like to suggest using this.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psychic-warrior

I usueally avoid all things pathfinder like the plague BUT, this rare gem was outsourced and made for them by dreamscarred press. Dreamscarred press really do excellent work.





Taking karmicstrike is good for someone who can
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Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 05:57:31 PM »
I really don't have ANY 'standard' builds. I'll have to get back to you on that, if you want an example. (Library's closing in like 3 minutes, as of the time of this post.)

Offline nijineko

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 08:02:30 PM »
secrets of sarlona and incarnum handbook have some useful psionic goodies.

Offline midnight_v

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 08:09:21 PM »
I really don't have ANY 'standard' builds. I'll have to get back to you on that, if you want an example. (Library's closing in like 3 minutes, as of the time of this post.)
Nah it doesn't really matter.
Though if you want to help the... apparently missing Op. . .
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Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2012, 11:45:09 AM »
Well, here's one involving only dragonborn and warforged, the SRD, and a single The Mind's Eye article (no flaws). Minimal outside interference, as it were.

Quote from: Dragonborn [wings] warforged soulbound weapon psychic warrior 5
Feats
1. Combat Reflexes
1. Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation)
1. Weapon Focus (Soulbound Weapon) - Bonus feat from the Soulbound Weapon ACF
2. Soulbound Weapon ACF
3. Extend Power or Empower Power
5. Psionic Meditation

Powers
1. Psionic Minor Creation
1. Call Weaponry (Good for Extending)
1. Expansion (Good for Extending)
1. Compression (Good for Extending) or another power of your choice (such as Vigor)
2. Dissolving Weapon (GREAT for Empowerment)
2. Strength of My Enemy (Good for Extending)

Cha is a dump-stat, and you don't have a lot of use for Int (especially if you jump into barbarian or martial monk for Improved Trip), though it might be nice for some Craft checks, so don't dump it TOO much, and you only need a marginally decent Wis for this particular build (at least until later on, when you can purchase some Wis-boosters). Dex, Con, and Str are important, though Str can be augmented using the Expansion and Strength of My Enemy powers when needed, and Dex can be boosted (a little) via Compression. You can focus on melee OR ranged, or you can do both, so use that to determine which is more important between Dex and Str.

The fun part here is the fact that you're immune to poison (even being dragonborn -- you don't lose your living construct subtype, which gives you immunity). Use Psionic Minor Creation to coat yourself and your weapons and armor in one or two different kinds of poison, each of which lasts 5 hours for only 1 pp.

Also, you're a living construct and have infinite stamina. You can use those wings to fly without tiring out like most creatures do. Huzzah!

Your standard modus operandi is to rely mainly on poisoning everything you've got on you with a contact poison and using Expansion for some extra melee damage and your off-day manifestations of Dissolving Weapon on your arrows for extra ranged damage. Strength of My Enemy is great as both a buff and a debuff, but it doesn't have that long of a duration, so I wouldn't use it too terribly often (though later on you can use the Persistent Power feat from Hyperconscious to make it last all day long). However, note that it works on both melee and ranged weaponry, so it segues well into both styles, especially if you get yourself an elvencraft bow (from Races of the Wild). Maybe use that for your soulbound weapon, so you have lots of options on when and how to use it. Since you can fly you can definitely snipe from above. Flight + Poison + SoME is a nasty combo, and you can use it well (assuming a decent Dexterity score, anyway).

Empower Power is great for some strong manifestations of Dissolving Weapon on your off-days. Extend is mostly for Strength of My Enemy, since it's cheaper to just remanifest Psionic Minor Creation (and it lasts for 5 hours at a time anyway).

Do make sure you have a pair of spiked gauntlets and a reach weapon (such as a guisarme), though, so when you have Expansion up you can do some battlefield control with your trips. (Remember that dragonborn removes your slam attack). You don't have Improved Trip (though that can be rectified with a couple of levels in barbarian, or a level in martial monk, or even two feats), but you still get a nice hefty bonus from your increased size and strength when using Expansion (and who cares if you provoke AoOs if they can't reach you?). And even without the attack from Improved Trip, you still are covered in contact poison, and the touch attack from the trip attempt will expose your foe to at least one dose.

Choose a versatile weapon type for your soulbound weapon (such as an elvencraft composite longbow). Use it for when you really need JUST the right tool for the job. Fighting a hydra? A temporary sundering weapon is MUCH better than blowing a feat on Improved Sunder. Blowing a +1 on ghost touch sucks, so pop that on your SW when you need it. It's not for everyday use, since it's rather expensive to augment, so only go after it when you'd be screwed without it. Get to know your weapon enhancements and you'd be amazed at how powerful and versatile this option is.

Alternatively you can go barbarian 2 (grabbing pounce, Improved Trip, and a plethora of other always-on abilities, as well as whirling frenzy or rage) or martial monk 1 or 2 (with Tashalatora, of course, though that's outside of the scope of this particular build-stub). Go for Improved Trip and the Knockdown feat in the SRD (or Deities & Demigods). It'll save you tons of power points, as well as a few feats (though you will have fewer pp and lower level powers available). It's actually a decently worthwhile trade. That and you can have a ton of battlefield control at your draconic robotic fingertips.

From here you can either focus on melee and BFC, or ranged damage and debuffs. Or you can easily split the difference with some clever use of the buffs at your disposal. You've got some excellent powers and versatile feat choices at your disposal, so find ways to make each choice fit into both categories!

Make sure to buy lots of 1st level power stones. According to CPsi (which may or may not be in play at the time of this writing), you can expend your own pp to manifest the power in the stone at your manifester level (which includes augmentation and metapsionics). However, a lot of low-level psywar powers are great at ML 1. Inertial Armor is a good choice, as are Call Weaponry (autoscales due to your ACF), Expansion, Compression & Psionic Minor Creation (all of which are good for emergency manifestations when you actually do run out of power points), Chameleon, Bite of the Wolf (note that this also auto-scales with your psywar level, despite still only having a ML of 1), Synesthete, My Light, Detect Psionics, and Skate. Quite a steal for only 25 gp each, and you can spend your own pp in a pinch to knock the manifester level up as needed.

More expensive but still potentially worthwhile are numerous 2nd level power stones. Body Adjustment (and it's not an effect subject to your warforged 'curse' of half-healing), Energy Adaptation, Psionic Darkvision (mostly for emergency use), and Wall Walker.

I hope this at least sparked some ideas.

----------------------------------------------------------

Also, karmic strike is good, but it's better for someone with the ability to heal vampirically. Psywars at later levels have a number of options with which to do this, but early on, opening yourself to attacks is much worse than whacking them with a trip-oriented attack of opportunity.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 11:50:26 AM by Lycanthromancer »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2012, 11:45:53 PM »
If you're considering going with a psion instead of psi-warrior, take a look at this.
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Offline deuxhero

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Re: Psion Warforged
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »
Being immune to poison, you can do worse things with a feat than Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Minor Creation to make buckets of Black Lotus Extract for free. PMC is an all around pretty cool power even without poison shenanigans.