Quarterstaff of reach?

[Necrosnoop110]

(Q) Any non-magical way to get reach on a quarterstaff?

Details: I'm running a low level tiny jermlaine Druid with the Vow of Poverty (I know not the most optimized of feats) and I'd like to use the old quaterstaff Shillelagh trick but since I'm tiny I got no reach. What's a little rat brother to do?

Peace,
Necro 

[darqueseid]

do you really want reach or do you just want to use a small size weapon?  I would think a small size quarterstaff still has a 5' reach like any other.  you'll get a -2 penalty to use it, but you'd have the range you want...

[sirpercival]

This feat gives you +5 foot reach.  And you can take Aberrant Wildshape while you're at it.

[Necrosnoop110]

do you really want reach or do you just want to use a small size weapon?  I would think a small size quarterstaff still has a 5' reach like any other.  you'll get a -2 penalty to use it, but you'd have the range you want...

You sure about that? I always thought reach if not given in the weapon description didn't happen?

[Necrosnoop110]

This feat gives you +5 foot reach.  And you can take Aberrant Wildshape while you're at it.

Won't work flavor wise and you need to be humanoid, I'm fey but great idea in theory, thanks.

[kitep]

I would think a small size quarterstaff still has a 5' reach like any other.

I looked at a Grig (MM-235).  It's a tiny creature that uses a short sword.  The normal 5' reach of a short sword is reduced to 2-1/2 feet according to the stat block.  I imagine the 5' reach of a quarterstaff is also reduced to 2-1/2'  (ie, same square).

I assume you're talking about using an oversized quarterstaff.  Alas, PHB-113 says that to do that, the weapon goes up one step (light, 1-handed, 2-handed), and if it goes beyond 2-handed, it can't be used.
However, Monkey Grip (CW-103) let's you do this.  So you could wield a "small" 2-handed quarterstaff and get the 5' reach.  (Note: apparently the 3.0 monkey grip was slightly different and could be read to not let you do this.  Make sure you use the one in Complete Warrior).  It does incur a -2 penalty on the attack roll.

[Garryl]

I would think a small size quarterstaff still has a 5' reach like any other.

I looked at a Grig (MM-235).  It's a tiny creature that uses a short sword.  The normal 5' reach of a short sword is reduced to 2-1/2 feet according to the stat block.  I imagine the 5' reach of a quarterstaff is also reduced to 2-1/2'  (ie, same square).

I assume you're talking about using an oversized quarterstaff.  Alas, PHB-113 says that to do that, the weapon goes up one step (light, 1-handed, 2-handed), and if it goes beyond 2-handed, it can't be used.
However, Monkey Grip (CW-103) let's you do this.  So you could wield a "small" 2-handed quarterstaff and get the 5' reach.  (Note: apparently the 3.0 monkey grip was slightly different and could be read to not let you do this.  Make sure you use the one in Complete Warrior).  It does incur a -2 penalty on the attack roll.

Where does it say that reach is based on weapon size? I think I remember reading somewhere (not a clue where, may have been in my imagination) that reach is solely based on the wielder and whether or not the weapon is a reach weapon (which flat out doubles reach unless specified otherwise), the one exception being that using over- or under-sized reach weapons doesn't give you the benefit of the increased reach. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I think it may have been in one of the Rules of the Game articles, but I really don't know.

[kitep]

There's also the feat Lunging Strike (PHB2-80).  Probably not what you want since it takes a full-round attack to do a single attack, but I'll throw it out there.

[Jackinthegreen]

Using the 3.5 weapon size rules, you wouldn't be able to get a quarterstaff that increased your reach at all because weapon size itself doesn't increase reach.  However, a case can be made for the weapon rules in Savage Species which says larger equipment has larger reach.  The argument is that because reach weapons weapons double the reach of the creature, it means they themselves have an increased reach for that weapon size.  An ogre wouldn't get extra reach from a tiny guisarme (if it could wield it), but a human could get extra reach from a large guisarme.

Why bother with Monkey Grip when Strongarm Bracers from MiC will do the trick and not reduce accuracy?

[kitep]

Where does it say that reach is based on weapon size? I think I remember reading somewhere (not a clue where, may have been in my imagination) that reach is solely based on the wielder and whether or not the weapon is a reach weapon (which flat out doubles reach unless specified otherwise), the one exception being that using over- or under-sized reach weapons doesn't give you the benefit of the increased reach. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I think it may have been in one of the Rules of the Game articles, but I really don't know.

PHB-150 talks about how reach doubles based on a creature's natural reach for larger or larger creatures.

(click to show/hide)

Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to
double their natural reach but can’t strike at their natural reach or
less. For example, an ogre with a Large longspear could strike
with the longspear at opponents 15 or 20 feet away, but not at
those 5 or 10 feet away.

I don't know of any rule one-way-or-the-other that says whether a tiny creature wielding a "small" weapon does or does not get a 5' reach.  But the doubling of reach seems to assume a size-appropiate weapon.

[kitep]

Why bother with Monkey Grip when Strongarm Bracers from MiC will do the trick and not reduce accuracy?

Because the OP requested a non-magical way to get reach on a quarterstaff.  Otherwise, the Strongarm Bracers would be a better option.

[Jackinthegreen]

Why bother with Monkey Grip when Strongarm Bracers from MiC will do the trick and not reduce accuracy?

Because the OP requested a non-magical way to get reach on a quarterstaff.  Otherwise, the Strongarm Bracers would be a better option.

Derp, VoP would put a damper on that.  MG would be about the only way to get reach then, assuming it's ruled that a small quarterstaff does have 5 foot reach.

[kitep]

I just noticed Monkey Grip can't be used with a double weapon.  Does that mean quarterstaff is inelgible, or just that the wielder can't use it as a double weapon?

[kitep]

I'd like to use the old quaterstaff Shillelagh trick

What's this trick?

[Kethrian]

So what exactly would the reach be for a tiny rope dart/whip (15' for small/medium)?

[kitep]

Well, since it triples the natural reach of small/medium, I assume it would triple the reach of tiny.  So 2-1/2 feet x 3 = 7-1/2 feet.   Since 2-1/2 seems to round down to "same square", 7-1/2 should round down to "adjacent", or the same squares you'd hit with a 5' reach.  At least that's my opinion, worth every cent you paid for it 

[ariasderros]

My $0.02 is based on Savage Species. I know many are going to hate it just for that, but it's the only place that actually has rules for this.

On page42 it has rules for changing weapon size and it's effect on range and reach. To boiler-plate this: non-reach weapons and non-ranged weapons are given the reach of their wielder only; ranged weapons get a 25% range increase per size change up or down; reach weapons are altered by 5ft up or down, with an exception being made that a Tiny creature wielding a small reach weapon gains 5ft reach.

So a medium creature wielding a huge spiked chain (Half-Giant with Balanced chain) would have a 5ft reach, doubled for reach weapon, then +10ft for 2 size categories on reach weapon for a 20ft reach.

But since the quarterstaff isn't a reach weapon, you'd gain no benefit for it's size change beyond damage.

Beyond that, the only mundane method I know of of increasing reach that hasn't been mentioned is with the Dancing Blade Form, which is a level 5 Iron Heart Stance. but there is no way for you to pick that up w/o magic until you're a pretty high level by either dipping WB 2 levels, or investing 3 feats.

[Maat Mons]

My 3.0 DMG and PHB are in storage, but I remember 3.0 reach weapons adding an amount to reach depending on the size of the weapon and 3.5 reach weapons doubling natural reach instead. 

[Necrosnoop110]

I'd like to use the old quaterstaff Shillelagh trick

What's this trick?

Nothing special, just stacking shillelagh/brambles/spikes/etc all on top of one quarterstaff. 

[phaedrusxy]

3.5 reach weapons doubling natural reach instead.

This is correct. Using a reach weapon just doubles your natural reach in 3.5. The size of the weapon doesn't matter.