Template Stacking: What are the best stat increases achievable with LA+1

[kalaskaagathas]

So, I'm trying to figure out what the absolute best stat increases are possible with a maximum LA of +1 and a maximum RHD of +1.  I figure you're gonna want Tauric Creature, since that only applies its LA to the base humanoid, so if we can keep the creature type legal then we can stack whatever we want on there.  I'm hoping to have positive modifiers for each stat - highest total modifiers win, I guess.

So, what can we do?

[Maat Mons]

Dragonwrought kobolds don't gain ability penalties for aging, but still gain ability bonuses.  I don't know if that counts. 

Using the lesser planetouched rules (Player’s Guide to Faerun pg. 191), there are 4 LA +0 races with a net +4 to stats. 
lesser aasimar: +2 wis, +2 cha
lesser axani: +2 int, +2 wis
lesser cansin: +2 int, +2 cha
lesser wispling: -2 str, +4 dex, +2 int

The Lolth-touched template (Monster Manual IV) gives +6 str and +6 con for LA +1. 

So, a net +16 is doable.  It's probably possible to do better by abusing incarnate construct (Savage Species). 

[Rebel7284]

RAW Half Minotaur

[sirpercival]

No no no.  You can do essentially infinite mental stat changes with +1 LA with the Symbiotic template.  It doesn't carry over LA or RHD from the symbiote, just abilities.  So you could technically have your symbiote be a 9001 level wizard.

[kalaskaagathas]

No no no.  You can do essentially infinite mental stat changes with +1 LA with the Symbiotic template.  It doesn't carry over LA or RHD from the symbiote, just abilities.  So you could technically have your symbiote be a 9001 level wizard.

Hmm, does the Kobold's Slight Build make it small enough to be a guest to a medium sized creature?  Though, even if you could, I worry that its type would make it illegal.  I forget which types are legal for a guest, but I have to wonder if the type restrictions (and other such restrictions) might be easier to deal with on a Tauric creature than a Symbiotic one.

[sirpercival]

Not at all.  Since there's no restriction on the ECL of the symbiote, simply apply the Wood Element template (from Manual of the Planes pg 196) for +5 LA and Spellwarped template (MMIII) for +3 LA to almost anything you like.  Wood Element gives you both Plant and Elemental traits, and can be applied to any aberration, animal, magical beast, or vermin.  Spellwarped can be applied to any aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, plant, or vermin, and turns them into an aberration.

[Von Krieger]

Presuming just piling on templates...

Greensnake Naga from Oriental Adventures is a +1 LA race that gives +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, and +2 Wis for a total of +14.

Add on Half- Minotaur (Dragon 313) which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int (+4)
And also increases size to Large, which adds +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con (+10, total of +14 with Half-Minotaur, total of +28 thus far)

Lolth-Touched (MMIV) will add +6 Str and +6 Con (+12, total of +40)

Add the Dust Form template (Sandstorm) for +4 Str, -2 Dex (+2, total of +42)

Add Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) to restore the Int and Con scores that Dustform took away and negate the two levels of LA from Half-Minotaur and Lolth Touched.

Oh, almost forgot, Incarnate Construct makes your type Giant since you're Large size. So you can qualify for Primordial Giant (Secrets of Xen'Drik) for -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha (+2, total of +44)

In the end that comes out to:
+20 Str, +14 Con, +4 Int, +2 Wis, and +4 Cha

No weird tricks, no infinite loops, no questionable shenanigans with the Symbiotic creature template.

Potentially you can extrapolate a Water Creature template from Water Halflings and Water Orcs for another +2 to Con.

[Maat Mons]

I'm coming up with +20 str, -2 con, +4 int, +2 wis, +4 cha.  The bonuses to con that are applied before it gets reset are lost. 

I'm also coming up with LA +3. 

• Dustform Creature: LA +2
• Greensnake Shinomen Naga: LA +1
• Half-Minotaur: LA +1
• Incarnate Construct: LA -2
• Lolth-Touched: LA +1
• Primordeal Giant: LA +0

[Von Krieger]

Alrighty.

Pull out Dustform.

We'll pay 2,000 GP and put a Dragonflesh Golem (MMII) limb on him to make him a Half Golem and have him make his save. +6 Str and -2 Dex is the only thing that will get kept.

Use Effigy Creature (Complete Arcane), that gives +4 Str, -2 Dex, and makes Int and Con non-stats. Also reduces Cha to 1 and Wis to 11.

Since we're dropping those stats, we might as well pile on a few more templates.

Wild Creature (Dragon 306) will give +2 to Str.

Proto Creature (Bestiary of Krynn) will add another +4 to Str

So an additional +16 Str and -4 dex.

So

+36 Str, -4 Dex, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha

For a total of +38 worth of stats.

Though it sets Wisdom to 11 and Charisma to 3, made 7 by the end result.

Oh hey, just realized that Necropolitan will knock that Con back to a non-ability, giving a total of 40.

I think there might be another one or two templates that add physical stats that I'm forgetting about.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

This is a little mangled after multiple board change overs.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869050/Obeahs_Races_thread_disappeared_

Tauric is uncapped on the one side.

Technically (technically) Symbiotic is capped.
But even then it's rather nice.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19863774/Symbiotic_Creature_Template_-_Handbook

Wizard makes Effigy with Incarnate Construct = T.O.


I'm sure a big hash-out could find more stuff.

[sirpercival]

How is symbiotic capped, exactly?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I have a thread for this (and any other racial nice). I mention the silly stuff like enlarge person for incarnate construct and primordial giant, but don't tally it iirc

[Endarire]

Necropolitan only applies to (Monstrous) Humanoid.  If you're a Giant, you don't qualify.

[Amechra]

So...

If you make a creature that is both Tauric and Symbiotic...

How does that work, exactly? Does it vary by the order that you do it in?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

How is symbiotic capped, exactly?

Y'know ...  ... I don't rightly remember.

Bad aDMg 

[zook1shoe]

How is symbiotic capped, exactly?

Running out of templates, which never can happen since "evolved undead" is infinite (and probably some others)

So...

If you make a creature that is both Tauric and Symbiotic...

How does that work, exactly? Does it vary by the order that you do it in?

Yeah, just as long as you apply them when when the torso/body or guest/host qualifies.

it even works for multiples of each. Just as long as they still qualify, for example 4 or more legs, etc.


EDIT: was afb, Symbiotic is an acquired template, so it has to applied after Tauric template, but nothing is stopping you from having a Tauric creature bond with a Tauric creature.

[Pencil]

Well.... this might be a little necrophil but.. :

I am looking for the best physical stats for LA +1 and this thread was kinda recent.Any ideas?

[zook1shoe]

Well.... this might be a little necrophil but.. :

I am looking for the best physical stats for LA +1 and this thread was kinda recent.Any ideas?

besides infinite? check out Von Krieger's

[Ithamar]

Half-Minotaur, but that's pretty cheesey.  For regular +1 LA, probably Lolth-Touched (MMIV).

[Pencil]

Hmm Loth touched was the first that came to my mind aswell but I thought there was maybe some strange combi of templates that would grant bigger boni.No Infinite thou