Author Topic: good way of killing dragons?  (Read 5204 times)

Offline Braininthejar

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good way of killing dragons?
« on: May 21, 2012, 01:50:20 PM »
-excluding the Frostburn broken hypothermia trick.

Anyone has any favourite methods?

Offline dipolartech

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »
hmmm Control Winds to make it land, Tanglefoot bag or stronger to hold it there long enough for the Unseen servant to lift a handy haversack full of Feather Token: Anchors about 20 feet above its head.
1. Invert bag
2 speak command word
3. roll lots o dice
4. ????
5. produce line of Dragchi Purses and high Heel shoes,
6. Profit.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 02:04:44 PM »
Gate one in, tell it to kill itself, then reanimate it with a Necrosinger.
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Offline dipolartech

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 02:10:19 PM »
Man that remark on Gate about how the summoned entity must serve is seriously ridiculous, sirP can you ask it to skin itself first so I can still make my dragon skin and sapient pearwood backpack/purse line of accessories?

Offline Braininthejar

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 05:19:18 PM »
How to get sapient pearwood in D&D?

Offline dipolartech

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 06:40:36 AM »
Openly claim that having a dragonskin, sapient pearwood handy haversack ( that collected hands for a hobby) would make an amazing comedic relief side kick (thereby invoking narrative causality) then casting wish/miracle would do the trick I think.

Offline The_Laughing_Man

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 06:44:35 AM »
solid fog, wingbind, wall of stone, wall of force

Basically control the dragon's movement and you are halfway there.

Offline linklord231

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 02:25:46 AM »
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Alexei

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 04:34:29 PM »
Is Mind Rape + Love's Pain in the table?

My old group loved to blanket our charger in magical protection and drop him near the dragon while the rest of us watched the show

Offline debihuman

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2012, 04:24:28 AM »
It depends on the dragon.  White dragons are dumber than other dragons.  You throw fireballs at them.

Assuming you are using appropriate CR dragons, they aren't as difficult to defeat if the party uses some tactics.  A crafty party will make sure the dragon uses up its resources before they use up theirs. It's a war of attrition.  A clever dragon will attempt to do the same.  Red dragons tend to be more difficult for the CR rating--especially if the DM doesn't account for minions of the dragon.  It's also possible for the minions to switch sides (minions should always want to help the winning side).

I prefer encounters with dragons to be dynamic and recurring, making sure the dragon has an escape plan if things aren't working out rather than let the PCs deal with a dragon carcass if I can help it. Also, defeating a dragon doesn't necessarily always mean killing it.

Dragons are long-lived and should have a lot of useful knowledge that the PCs can exploit -- for a price (as any dragon is always looking to increase its hoard). Plus, even evil dragons can lie and pretend to be "good" for a while, especially if they are getting something from the pretext. 

Debby

Offline Braininthejar

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 09:01:44 PM »
Coming back to the problem as I may soon have to actually kill one.

The game is one player - one DM. So, I have a team of NPCs at my disposal but if I lose any they won't be automatically replaced next session. That makes me hesitant about throwing them into close combat.

The problem is, the DM doesn't like rolling fights - most of her adventures can be solved through clever thinking, reasoning with NPCs and out-of-combat magic use. This is quite satisfying most of the time and I do like it. However, as the result, my wizard is much better suited to espionage than to actually hurting things.

Now to actual stats:

Wizard 7 ( aiming to be a loremaster next level but not really focused on anything) - the books I have acquired mostly include core transmutation, conjuration and necromancy spells. From what I already know and can actually hurt people with... vampiric touch, curse, trollform, summon monster IV.

Fighter 6/Warblade 1 - two handed sword. not much else to be said.

Ranger2/Barbarian2/FoTF3 - the team's person for survival and spot checks. A killer when buffed and raging but... I have just learned that the fighter got her pregnant. So yeah, I can't afford to lose either of them.

Fighter4/Savage Bard3 - can buff the team by singing and do gather information checks for me.

Noble1/Wizard3 - my assistant, invaluable for handling all the stuff I don't have the time for. Can buff and hide or I can give him a wand of lightning and hope I can keep him away from the fight (he is an illegitimate son of a very important NPC. Also, my faithful student)

I am expecting to fight a black dragon. I am going to take over her spy network next game so I should have at least some info. Worst case scenario I will have to fight her in the swamp and will have to save my assistant's big sister from the lair.

 

Offline Tempest

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 08:46:07 PM »
Quote
The problem is, the DM doesn't like rolling fights - most of her adventures can be solved through clever thinking, reasoning with NPCs and out-of-combat magic use. This is quite satisfying most of the time and I do like it. However, as the result, my wizard is much better suited to espionage than to actually hurting things.

Actually, this might work more to your advantage than not, a lower level fight against a dragon often requires great preperation and strategic thinking, and having an open minded DM like that is certainly a preference. The first thing you want to do is limit the dragon's mobility, fighting it in its lair is often preferable to fighting it outdoors where it can make use of an open sky, if it does turn out that fighting it in an enclosed space is going to be impossible, there are a few things you might try.

It depends on the size and age of the dragon in question, but it's entirely possible that you might get lucky and get an Earthbind spell (Draconomicon) through its SR, and even if it makes its Fortitude save it'll still have its flight speed greatly reduced. On a similar note, both Scale Weakening and Suppress Breath Weapon from the same book are excellent spells when dealing with a dragon with a SR you can actually beat.

As for your other spells, both Vampiric Touch and Bestow Curse are sort of pointless, considering you'd need to get close enough to touch the damn thing, Troll Form is pretty powerful normally, but a lack of a ranged attack and negation of Regeneration due to its Acid breath weapon makes it somewhat useless. Summon Monster IV however does offer a number of excellent choices, as a group of smaller flying creatures can really become a pain for a larger dragon very fast. Consider summoning a Lantern Archon or two, they have Perfect flight speed, a ranged TOUCH attack (Though it doesn't deal much damage) as well as Magic Circle Against Evil and Teleport at Will. The Archon can't actually bring another creature along with it, but it can bring 50 pounds of items, such as 12 tanglefoot bags, dropped from a height above the dragon capable of dealing enough 'damage' to the bags for them to split open and spill their goo all over it, and even if the rule states that Huge and larger creatures aren't affected by them, try to reason with your DM that the amount of sticky substance would at the very least hamper its movement. Aside from that, the Celestial Giant Eagle is an excellent aerial summon in that level of Summon Monster, and even if their attacks won't make it through the dragon's AC all that often, they do have better mobility than the dragon, as well as Evasion and a decent Reflex save to soak up its breath weapons.
If you do manage to ground the dragon, summoning a couple of Howlers can quickly make life hell for it if it fails its Reflex save just once against their Quills.

In the end, the greatest weapon you have against a dragon is preperation, make sure you have every advantage you can get, Energy Resistance spells will do wonders, and getting a method of flight for your melee warriors is a must if you can't get the dragon grounded. Heck, getting your hands on a ballista or two and preparing them in advance would be great, maybe a pair of them with a large net to take the dragon out of the sky.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 08:49:33 PM by Tempest »

Offline Braininthejar

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 09:03:51 AM »
An archon brough in with summon monster can't teleport.

Anyway, I will probably have enough ways to prevent it from flying. What I do need is ways to deal damage to it quickly - acid protection spells will only hold out for so long and if any of my fighters takes a second full attack from a dragon, I am in serious trouble.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 07:16:12 PM »
An archon [brought] in with summon monster can't teleport.
Got a citation on that?  The summoning rules state that a summoned creature cannot use any of its inherent summoning abilities for one hour.  I know of no rule preventing a summoned creature from using any of its other SLA's.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#summon

Offline Bozwevial

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2012, 07:20:32 PM »
An archon [brought] in with summon monster can't teleport.
Got a citation on that?  The summoning rules state that a summoned creature cannot use any of its inherent summoning abilities for one hour.  I know of no rule preventing a summoned creature from using any of its other SLA's.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#summon
Quote from: Summon Monster I
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.
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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 07:50:32 PM »
 :blush

Huh, look at that.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 08:25:27 PM »
I realize this is a bit late and the encounter has likely already happened, but here's a couple spells that'll help for the dragon and probably several other creatures.

Get yourself Spectral Hand so you can do melee touch spells at range with a +2 attack bonus no less.  Unless you don't have any touch spells (very rare) then every wizard should have it.

If you think spell resistance might be a problem, Assay Spell Resistance gives you +10 to overcome SR and is a swift action to cast.

Offline Braininthejar

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Re: good way of killing dragons?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 07:07:44 PM »
No problem - the encounter hasn't happened yet (we are struggling with the logistics of finding the lair in the swamp - in the meantime we hunt her human agents and gather intel)