Gestalt BAB & Save Progression - Am I doing this right?

[FireInTheSky]

In all of the spoilered tables, the columns are as follows:

Level - Class A Prog. - Amt. Incr./Lvl - Class B Prog. - Amt. Incr./Lvl - Class C Prog. - Amt. Incr./Lvl. - Gestalt Incr./Lvl. - Gestalt Prog.

(click to show/hide)

Base Attack Bonus Increase by Level
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20	'A' BAB +0 +1 +2 +3 +3 +4 +5 +6/+1 +6/+1 +7/+2 +8/+3 +9/+4 +9/+4 +10/+5 +11/+6/+1 +12/+7/+2 +12/+7/+2 +13/+8/+3 +14/+9/+4 +15/+10/+5	Incr 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1	'B' BAB +0 +1 +2 +3 +3 +4 +5 +6/+1 +6/+1 +7/+2 +8/+3 +9/+4 - +9/+4 +10/+5 - - - - -	Incr 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 - 0 +1 - - - - -	'C' BAB - - - - - - - - - - - - +1 - - +2 +3 +4 +5 +6	Incr - - - - - - - - - - - - +1 - - +1 +1 +1 +1 +1	Look Across <-- 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1	Gestalt BAB +0 +1 +2 +3 +3 +4 +5 +6/+1 +6/+1 +7/+2 +8/+3 +9/+4 +10/+5 +11/+6/+1 +12/+7/+2 +13/+8/+3 +14/+9/+4 +15/+10/+5 +16/+11/+6/+1 +17/+12/+7/+2

(click to show/hide)

Fort Save Increase by Level
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20	'A' Fort +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 +4 +4 +5 +5 +5 +6 +6 +6	Incr 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0	'B' Fort +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 - +4 +4 - - - - -	Incr 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 - 0 0 - - - - -	'C' Fort - - - - - - - - - - - - 0 - - +0 +1 +1 +1 +2	Incr - - - - - - - - - - - - 0 - - 0 +1 0 0 +1	Look Across 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 +1 +1 0 +1	Gestalt Fort +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 +4 +4 +5 +5 +6 +7 +7 +8

(click to show/hide)

Reflex Save Increase by Level
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20	'A' Ref +2 +3 +3 +4 +4 +5 +5 +6 +6 +7 +7 +8 +8 +9 +9 +10 +10 +11 +11 +12	Incr +2 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1	'B' Ref +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 - +4 +4 - - - - -	Incr 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 - 0 0 - - - - -	'C' Ref - - - - - - - - - - - - +0 - - +0 +1 +1 +1 +2	Incr - - - - - - - - - - - - 0 - - 0 +1 0 0 +1	Look Across +2 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1	Gestalt Ref +2 +3 +4 +5 +5 +6 +6 +7 +8 +9 +9 +10 +10 +11 +11 +12 +13 +14 +14 +15

(click to show/hide)

Will Save Increase by Level
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20	'A' Will +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 +4 +4 +5 +5 +5 +6 +6 +6	Incr 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0 +1 0 0	'B' Will +2 +3 +3 +4 +4 +5 +5 +6 +6 +7 +7 +8 - +8 +9 - - - - -	Incr +2 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 0 +1 - 0 +1 - - - - -	'C' Will - - - - - - - - - - - - +2 - - +3 +3 +4 +4 +5	Incr - - - - - - - - - - - - +2 - - +1 0 +1 0 +1	Look Across +2 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 0 +1 +1 +1 0 +1 +2 0 +1 +1 0 +1 0 +1	Gestalt Will +2 +3 +4 +5 +5 +6 +6 +7 +8 +9 +9 +10 +12 +12 +13 +14 +14 +15 +15 +16

Is this how it actually is supposed to work?

[Halinn]

The text is vague on the subject. It says to take the better progression, but it is unclear on whether or not that is on a per-level basis. Assuming it's on a per-level basis, your calculations are correct.

Often, fractional saves/BAB is used instead. The details of this can be found on page 73 of Unearthed Arcana.

[Maat Mons]

Also, as a side note, I'm not sure why I'm getting the huge gaps between the top of the spoiler and the start of the table.  Any suggestions?

Things you write between table elements get shifted to before the table.  Just don't leave a bunch of blank lines between table elements. 

[sirpercival]

Also, make your over-table:

Code: [Select]

[table2=collapse]

[FireInTheSky]

Also, as a side note, I'm not sure why I'm getting the huge gaps between the top of the spoiler and the start of the table.  Any suggestions?

Things you write between table elements get shifted to before the table.  Just don't leave a bunch of blank lines between table elements.

Ah, thanks.  That did it.  I had a blank line between each column, just for readability while coding.  NEVER AGAIN!   

Also, make your over-table:

Code: [Select]

[table2=collapse]

Yeah, I was wondering how to push everything together.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I strongly recommend NOT using a "per level" basis for BAB and base saves, it becomes way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to break and get a +1 every level.

Use what I call a "running tally": Tally the total bonus of each side for BAB and each base save.  Use the better for each.  Refigure at level up as necessary.

Much more balanced.

HD and skill points are fine on a per-level basis, though.

[Halinn]

I strongly recommend NOT using a "per level" basis for BAB and base saves, it becomes way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to break and get a +1 every level.

Indeed. Consider the following:
Wizard 20 // Fighter 1/Cleric 19. Since the BAB increases on cleric side are offset by 1 level, there's no level where you don't get +1 BAB. In addition, due to how saves improve, you'll end up with quite high saves as well.

[FireInTheSky]

So, with Fractional BAB, since class 'C' has full, basically the best I'm going to do is (14 x .75) + 6 =  10.5 + 6 = 16.  So in this particular instance, not much different between Fractional and straight-up addition (not playing with level order).

As for Fractional Saves, is this right:

Fort:  All 3 classes are bad, so regardless of how I level, it would be 20 x .33 = +6
Ref: Class 'A' is good, classes 'B' and 'C' are bad, so just use A's Ref (+12)
Will: Class 'A' is bad, classes 'B' and 'C' are both good, so it's 20 x 2/3 = +12, which ignores the bump from 1st level of 'C'.

In summary, using Fractional BAB & Saves:

At 20th level:
  BAB: +16
  F: +6
  R: +12
  W: +12


Correct?

[Halinn]

Your will save with fractional saves would be +14, since the +2 from C still applies (it's detailed in their cleric 5/fighter 2 example)

[StreamOfTheSky]

I strongly recommend NOT using a "per level" basis for BAB and base saves, it becomes way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to break and get a +1 every level.

Indeed. Consider the following:
Wizard 20 // Fighter 1/Cleric 19. Since the BAB increases on cleric side are offset by 1 level, there's no level where you don't get +1 BAB. In addition, due to how saves improve, you'll end up with quite high saves as well.

You can get even more ridiculous.  Using the "per level" method, Wizard 20 // Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 19 has full BAB as well!

[ksbsnowowl]

Use what I call a "running tally": Tally the total bonus of each side for BAB and each base save.  Use the better for each.  Refigure at level up as necessary.

Much more balanced.

This is what I do in my Gestalt game.  PC's have two "sides" to their character.  Each side accrues its own BAB, Fort save, Ref save, and Will save.  For each those four, compare the two sides, and use the better one for each type.

Obviously, any bonuses outside BAB or BSB's, adds on top of your final BAB/BSB, no matter where it came from, or which "side" earned it.  For example, a Barbarian//Scout gets his good Fort save from Barbarian, but can add the Scout's Battle Fortitude on top of the Barb's Base Fort Save.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, class features that add to them is fine.  I was talking only about the base values.

[ksbsnowowl]

Yeah, class features that add to them is fine.  I was talking only about the base values.

I know you know that; I was just being extra clear, for posterity's sake.  Think of the children.