Help needed for a low level Tank (Gestalt Build)

[Wiggins]

A friend of mine just joined our Gestalt party, starting at Level 4.

The only unusual rules are that we aren't allowed to be any race that grants feats at first level, especially not humans, but that in return we all count as having the Able Learner feat, keeping all class skills for all classes we take.
Rather than point buy, we have 74 points to allocate however we choose within the usual limits (8-18 before racial adjustment).
(75 including the bonus at level 4)

Flaws are allowed and encouraged, so long as the negatives are truly applicable (no shaky if you have no real ranged options, etc.)
All books are allowed except sources like Dragon Magazine. Dragonlance is allowed on a case by case basis.
Psionics is discouraged as it's an in-campaign taboo (and the DM doesn't know the tricks and traps).
Anything Human related such as Human Heritage is banned, as Humans have died out of memory except as a new type of invading Outsider. Half Elves and Half Orcs still survive, though they're either more closely related to Mongrels or are inbred civilisations dating back to times long forgotten.

My friend wants to play a Lesser Maeluth.
It's been approved so long as he isn't evil, and starts out either Good or on the Good side of Neutral.

He also wants to play a Crusader (and we really need a Tank, so that's wonderful)
The DM has given him his starting equipment; Full Plate and a +1 Dwarf Waraxe, more to come from loot.
Oh, and HP have been rolled; 9, 8 and 8 on 3D10, making 47 with the 16 Con in the thrown together version.

And he wants to use Knowledge Devotion (so my first instinct was Cloistered Cleric).
But he still has to choose his 2nd class properly, along with Attributes, Feats, Flaws, Skills and so on.

We threw together something with Cloistered Cleric of Gluttony and Pride (There's a Lawful Neutral/True Neutral/Neutral Good God of All Domains available in this campaign), but at the end of the session, he wasn't all that happy with it, and is looking at other variations.

We were looking at Incarnate too, and that might be a better option?

What should he do? Cloistered Cleric or Incarnate? Or both? What should his stats be?

[Rebel7284]

Cloistered Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 7/XX 8 is a fairly good divine gish type.

Alternatively:
Paladin 4/Crusader 3/Divine Crusader 1/RKV 7/XX 5
This is weaker but possibly more flavorful.

[Wiggins]

I think he wants to keep Crusader pure on one side, not prestiging, though he might prestige down the other side.

And as such he couldn't use Ruby Knight Vindicator unless he had another Martial class to advance with it (it's treated in the same way as spellcasting, can't be advanced on both sides of the Gestalt simultaneously).

So that isn't really an option.

[Rebel7284]

Somehow I completely glossed over the gestalt part....

[muktidata]

Have him go the DMM: Persist route and see what he says. I'm pretty sure he'd like having his favorite buffs up all day and back-up spells to boot. That and great skill points and fuel for KD, etc. What is not to like? Those two go so well together.

[Wiggins]

Okay

What would be the ideal ability array?

[littha]

Okay

What would be the ideal ability array?

18 18 18 18 18 18

[Unbeliever]

Cloistered Cleric is certainly "better" than Incarnate for his other half (straight Crusader sitting on the other one).  Or, better yet Archivist with a dip into Cloistered Cleric or something else that gives you Turn Undead would also be great.  You get DMM, devotions, and so on, and with Archivist you get tasty Paladin, Blackguard, and Ranger spells.  But, if he wasn't feeling it, then he wasn't feeling it. 

Incarnate could certainly be a nice counterpoint to Crusader, though I'm not super up on Incarnum.  I might be also tempted to spend some of that B-side levels of an ECL like Mineral Warrior, which has good synergy with the Crusader. 

Really, anything with Passive bonuses or added utility pairs well.  The only other, completely wacky idea I have is to get something with a huge amount of stat boosts on the other side.  So, you're pretty much just playing a Crusader, but one with nutty numbers.  I'm thinking some sort of shapechanging -- Wild Shape or Primeval (or whatever that Frostburn prc is called), or even Bear Warrior but that would take a lot of work.  Big stats, warshaper, and so on could be a nice accompaniment, especially if he wants something sort of straightforward. 

[kurashu]

Incarnate brings a lot of options to the table for a Crusader -- not as many as a spellcaster, mind you, but still.

Things like: A shit ton more HP because, "FUCK YOU, I'M A CRUSADER AND WON'T DIE EVER"; more movement options; some damage reduction (see: more HP); weapon enhancements; decent spell resistance; ability damage reduction; among other more amusing things ("Did your crusader just spit a caustic luggie at the boss?!"). Incarnum is a lot of book keeping though, I'll warn that upfront. Fun as all hell, but a lot of book keeping -- especially if he isn't used to anything more than, "I swing my axe for 30 points of damage!"

Warblade//Factotum is a good build, too. Just take Font of Inspiration for every feat. I realize that's outside what he wants to play though.

[strider24seven]

I'd vote for Incarnate/Crusader for Martial Spirit+Therapeutic Mantle.  The Magic Nightstick of Wellness rides again!  Also other things too, and being CON-based is really nice.

Also Binder/Crusader is really good- Dahlver-Nar is really funny with Shield Other on you enemies.  Alternatively, shield a fellow beatstick and eat some of his damage... gotta be careful though or he might croak after taking a portion of yours...

I prefer an incarnate dip just for the mantle, then going into binder.  2 levels of incarnate is good enough IMO.

[Periaden]

I also think that a Incarnate/Crusader build would be amazing.  For the build, I would suggest Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral.  LN Incarnate can ramp their bonuses to hit, though that isn't really a problem with a Crusader, and the for the NG Incarnates, you will pretty much untouchable with all the AC boosts and the other means to dance around your enemies taunting them to hit you. Therapeutic Mantle is practically mandatory with a Crusader build, and the Vitality belt is just extra on a sweet "F** you" to anyone trying to do you in.

Other notable soulmelds

Spellward Shirt: Grants SR, and allows the spellcasters to use area affects with you in them without a worry
Impulse Boots: Boosts reflex save which is the worst save for this build
Planar Ward: Protects your mind and you against outsiders
Incarnate Avatar: Lawful version boots BAB, and the Good version boots AC

Granted with Maneuvers and Soulmelds, it can be daunting, but those two classes compliment each other so well.

To quote Sinfire Titan's Incarnate Handbook

Crusader: Flavorful, powerful, and nearly unkillable if built right. A great choice for melee, and Stone Power+Cobalt Power is kinda mean. Incarnate is a natural choice for this. MAD may show up if you focus on Cha-based abilities like Smite, but you can make up for that.

[littha]

Incarnate Avatar: Lawful version boots BAB

It does not... it gives an insight bonus to attack rolls. If it boosted BAB you would get extra attacks and things.

[Jackinthegreen]

Incarnate Avatar: Lawful version boots BAB

It does not... it gives an insight bonus to attack rolls. If it boosted BAB you would get extra attacks and things.

Specifically:

Law: You gain a +1 insight bonus on melee attack rolls for every point of essentia that you invest in this soulmeld.

Most Crusaders won't need that, plus the Good version's AC boost is more helpful.  I'm not sure how prevalent Insight bonuses are to AC though, so if there's an item or spell that's easily obtained with a better boost then that'd probably be better.