Imp Uncanny Dodge basically makes you immune to an Assassin's Death Attack?

[ksbsnowowl]

can you not have your bad guy study from hiding? or even talk with people first for a couple rounds and lead out with a death attack.  Even finagle a way for him to join the party and then strike when thier backs are turned (joining the party also lets you get at the casters more readily)?

All of the above would be instances of the PC's being flat-footed.  Everyone in the party, save the Druid//Sorcerer, retains their Dex to AC when flat-footed, thus no sneak attack, and therefore no death attack.

Literally, two of my PC's would only be capable of being death attacked if they were climbing, grappled, paralyzed, held, or otherwise helpless. Or if the assassin had 4 more assassin/rogue levels than them (just not possible at an appropriate CR) and flanked them.
One other PC (and the NPC) could be flanked, but not caught without his Dex, except in the same situations above.  As this guy will likely be a solo opponent (perhaps with a few mooks around), this is problematic for using either sneak attack or death attack.

[darqueseid]

I'm not sure what your saying, the PCs don't have to be denied dex when the assassin is studying them, just when he strikes.  So you have him join the party, walk around with them for a little while, then study one of them for 3 rounds and then you feint(free action right?)+death attack your target (as a suprise round action probably). 

Or you chat with them for a bit, instead of just attacking, and study one party member, then feint+death attack (no suprise this way but death attack still works).

Or you hide(or invis) in some room where they have some reason to stay, study the target, and feint+death attack out of hiding (suprise, assuming your hide beats thier spot).

I'm pretty sure all three scenario's above work, and don't rely on flat-footedness to pull off...

[ksbsnowowl]

While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy.

As Phaedrus pointed out above, feinting basically blows the bolded part.

It could be argued that this part only applies during the 3 rounds of study, and not during the 3 subsequent rounds during which you can then make the death attack, but...

Regardless, walking around with the party and getting chummy isn't going to work.  The assassin is a Tanarukk, not a humanoid.  They would see him as a threat as soon as they saw him.

So you have him join the party, walk around with them for a little while, then study one of them for 3 rounds and then you feint(free action right?)+death attack your target (as a suprise round action probably). 

Feint as a move action.  So no surprise round one-shot.  After that, they see him as a threat.  Again, debatable how the quotes rules interact there.

Or you hide(or invis) in some room where they have some reason to stay, study the target, and feint+death attack out of hiding (suprise, assuming your hide beats thier spot).

I don't think you can feint someone who can't see you.  As soon as they see you, surprise round, Assassin feints, and then his turn is done.

[darqueseid]

While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy.

As Phaedrus pointed out above, feinting basically blows the bolded part.


It could be argued that this part only applies during the 3 rounds of study, and not during the 3 subsequent rounds during which you can then make the death attack, but...

That's not arguable, that would be the logically correct interpretation, as long as you study for 3 rounds and are not recognized as an enemy, then on 4th round your free to go to town.  The point is you have met all the conditions required to activate the death attack ability.  In fact you could actually attack the target for 2 rounds and launch the death attack on the 3rd round.  You could attack other people  for 2 rounds and still have the death attack on the subject.  what you do in the subsequent 3 rounds (including feinting) has nothing to do with the fact that you have prepared a death attack

Regardless, walking around with the party and getting chummy isn't going to work.  The assassin is a Tanarukk, not a humanoid.  They would see him as a threat as soon as they saw him.

So you have him join the party, walk around with them for a little while, then study one of them for 3 rounds and then you feint(free action right?)+death attack your target (as a suprise round action probably). 

Feint as a move action.  So no surprise round one-shot.  After that, they see him as a threat.  Again, debatable how the quotes rules interact there.

Or you hide(or invis) in some room where they have some reason to stay, study the target, and feint+death attack out of hiding (suprise, assuming your hide beats thier spot).

I don't think you can feint someone who can't see you.  As soon as they see you, surprise round, Assassin feints, and then his turn is done.

I'm sorry I thought you had figured out how to make a feint as a free action, no matter, you would still get the death attack on your initiative in round 1.  (effectively round 2 for your 3 round death attack option)

As long as you have a sufficiently good initiative roll, (see warning/eager weapons) you get the demoralizing effect you want.... a belt of battle from the MIC could give you more init and a move action in the suprise round too I think(do you get a swift action in the suprise round? I don't remember)

[ksbsnowowl]

As long as you have a sufficiently good initiative roll, (see warning/eager weapons) you get the demoralizing effect you want.... a belt of battle from the MIC could give you more init and a move action in the suprise round too I think(do you get a swift action in the suprise round? I don't remember)

You make a decent argument...

Maybe I'll still stat up the Alternate Tanarukk Scout 1/Assassin 1/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 10, then I can use whichever of the two I feel like when the big day comes and the PC's have the show-down with him in the middle of a big battle...

And a Belt of Battle would be a decent treasure item that members of the party would enjoy, I think.

[Garryl]

Note that Beguiler lets you feint as a free action if you already have Imp Feint (don't remember if it's at 3rd or 6th), so it might be a viable alternative to Wizard + Belt of Battle if needed.

[ksbsnowowl]

Note that Beguiler lets you feint as a free action if you already have Imp Feint (don't remember if it's at 3rd or 6th), so it might be a viable alternative to Wizard + Belt of Battle if needed.

Beguiler won't get him the spells he would need, and by taking that many levels in Beguiler, he would be missing out on sneak attack or skirmish damage, which is the point in the first place.

The belt of battle will get me what I need with the assassin 10 build.  He can feint and sneak attack in the surprise round, then in another round he can feint for a group fake-out skill trick, and immediately hit the party with a full attack, and he can feint an individual and get a full attack on him.  More "restricted" than what I was originally planning, but it is very much doable.

[darqueseid]

remember that feint only gives you sneak attack for the "next" melee attack.  even if you full attack he would only do sneak attack damage once to the target...

[ksbsnowowl]

remember that feint only gives you sneak attack for the "next" melee attack.  even if you full attack he would only do sneak attack damage once to the target...

Yes, I realized that after the fact, just hadn't had time to edit.

I finally found the perfect solution to my problem, however.  From Complete Mage:

VITAL STRIKE
Divination
Level: Assassin 3
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One attack

You suddenly see two versions of your target, one a split second ahead of the other, allowing
you to target the holes in his defenses.

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the actions of your foes. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) is considered a sneak attack, even if your foe is neither flat-footed nor flanked. This spell does not allow you to sneak attack creatures normally immune to such attacks, nor does it allow you to make use of other abilities such as certain feats that deal ability damage, or otherwise grant you extra benefits, when you make a
sneak attack.

The swift action casting time makes it extremely sweet.  He could swift cast Vital Strike, then partial charge from hiding to Death Attack the NPC party member in the surprise round.  If need be, he could have cast Deathsight (also Complete Mage) the round before combat starts, as the PC's first enter the room.

Also, so far as I can tell, the rules never state you have to be threatening someone to feint them, correct?  The above situation could be achieved with a Belt of Battle and a Feint from across the room, right?  Activate Belt of Battle, Feint as a free move action, then partial charge to the target and death attack him, right?

[ksbsnowowl]

VITAL STRIKE
Divination
Level: Assassin 3
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One attack

You suddenly see two versions of your target, one a split second ahead of the other, allowing
you to target the holes in his defenses.

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the actions of your foes. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) is considered a sneak attack, even if your foe is neither flat-footed nor flanked. This spell does not allow you to sneak attack creatures normally immune to such attacks, nor does it allow you to make use of other abilities such as certain feats that deal ability damage, or otherwise grant you extra benefits, when you make a sneak attack.

Wait, does the bolded part mean that I can't use this spell to trigger a Death Attack?

[Jackinthegreen]

It's on the Assassin spell list.  If it doesn't allow you to get the death attack off, I'd say they fucked up on writing it.

[ksbsnowowl]

I think I might go for the Telling Blow feat, and try to fit in Improved Critical as well (Imp Crit and Keen stack in my game), and give the Tanarukk a +1 Keen Scimitar.  With a +1 weapon he gets 3 attacks at +18/+13/+8, so that first one will likely hit, and if he rolls a 12 or better on the die (and confirms), then he gets sneak attack.

The other thing I might do, is give him a scroll of Rope Trick.  When the PC's deal with the mooks downstairs, the assassin may well hear them.  He could then hide in the rope trick and deal sneak attacks at range from in there.  My PC's are likely to notice the window into the rope trick (they like running around with Arcane Sight up), and may well dispel it (actually, I don't think you can dispel it so long as the rope is brought up with you), but he can just as easily cast Vital Strike, etc, up there and tag the PC's as they wait below.

Hmmm...  Suppose the assassin did "hole up" in the rope trick.  What can the PC's do to get him out?