Author Topic: Gestalt tank builds  (Read 8468 times)

Offline Noliar

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Gestalt tank builds
« on: November 08, 2011, 11:23:12 AM »
Another go at a topic I started just before the ol boards went down:-

A PC in my current game has bit the dust and I'm giving thought to his replacement.

The campaign is evil gestalt characters in FR operating out of Waterdeep. 32 point buy, LA goes down both sides questions of RHD and LA buyoff have not been raised.  No PRC//PRC, no 2 classes in 1 PRCs. Action points are in play, Taint is in play, no real alignment (but lets keep builds compliant anyway). All WotC books except ToB

The party is 8th level. We have a dread necromancer//cleric of Velsharoon collecting undeads, a necromancer wizard//cleric (?cloistered ?archivist) of Shar summoning, debuffing and knowing secret **** and me - dragon shaman//warlock + dips buffing, zapping and social fu-ing. We have NPC trapmonkeys.

The player likes melee types and hates keeping track of spells and the like.

I'd love to see your suggetions and I'll post a couple of builds that I've thought up for criticism.

Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 11:24:07 AM »
First build:
Big Bob Threetotems


Goliath
Str 20+1 (31 raging), Dex 12, Con 18 (22 raging), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8


Goliath LA 1
GLA 1/ Barbarian (Lion Totem, Mountain Rage)1//GLA 1/ Scout 1
GLA 1/ Barb (wolf totem)2//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr 1
GLA 1/ Barb 3//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (dungeoncrusher)2
GLA 1/ Barb 4//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (Zhent)3
GLA 1/ Barb (Goliath RSL)5//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr 4
GLA 1/ Barb 5/ War Hulk 1//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (zhent)5
GLA 1/ Barb 5/ War Hulk 2//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (Dungeoncrusher 2)6


Feats: EWP spiked chain, power attack, [shaky flaw]
Cleave
Extra Rage
SF: intimidate
Improved Bull Rush
Knockback or Shock Trooper

progression would be more war hulk// more  dungeoncrushing zhent fighter
future feats would be Shock Trooper or Knockback, Knock down, Leap attack, Travel devotion

Nice, simple, brutal lockdown fighter. Adding the necropolitan template dumping CON and switching in whirling frenzy for rage is a tweak I'm considering.

Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 11:27:11 AM »
This one is more complicated but I think it's cool:

 
Champion of the Black Court
Unseelie Fey (DC p222) Changeling (ECS)
Str 18 (22 raging) Dex 12 Con 18+2 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18


Barbarian (CC lion totem, SRD whirling frenzy)1/Hexblade 3/Warshaper 4//Paladin of Slaughter 2/Totemist 2/Fighter 4
Feats: lvl 1 - Extra Rage, Alertness, Shaky [flaw], Aggressive [trait], Plucky [trait]
lvl 3 - intimidating rage
ftr 1 - WF: claws
ftr 2 - power attack
lvl 6 - imperious command
zhent fighter substitution lvl 3 - SF: intimidate
ftr 4 - WS: claws


Skills: Intimidate 11 ranks +26, Bluff 5 ranks +9, skill trick never outnumbered 2 ranks, Kn: Arcana 2 ranks
14 ranks open


So at level 8 we have:
HP = 52 + 7d10, Fort +18 (+4 v spells), Ref +9 (+4 v spells), Will +9 (+2 raging)(+4 v spells)
Best attack sequence (raging, all essentia in girralon claws): primary claw +15/+15/+10 d6+10 and 3 claws +10 d6+7 and morphic weapons +7 d4+3
move 30, fly 60 average
low light vision
lesser shapeshift, social bonuses
Other offense: Pounce
demoralise multiple enemies to cowering by raging
sudden unexpected reach
All simple and martial weapon proficencies
hexblade curse 1/day, smite good
Soulmelds
vernal touch vs undead
Other Defenses: Mettle
DR 10/cold iron, iron vulnerability (take extra d6 damage from iron and steel weapons)
immunity to crits, fast heal 2
vernal touch to remove conditions
All armour and shield proficiencies
Soulmelds


Progression would go: Soul Eater (BOVD)10/X 2//Ftr +6/hexblade (dark companion)+1*/PoS +1/Y 4
Feats to get soon would be multiattack,  leap attack, life drain


Suggestions for X and Y, improvements, critiques, ways to cover weakpoints all welcome.
*thanks to Maat_Mons for the suggestion

Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 11:32:05 AM »
The Not Quite So Frenzied Berzerker
Necropolitan Human (or half-orc + flaw)


Str 16+2, Dex 14, Con -, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 10


Fighter 2/Barbarian (whirling frenzy)2/Fighter +2/Frenzied Berzerker 2//Monk 2/Hexblade 3/cleric 2/Ftr +1
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Iron Will, Stunning fist
ftr 2 - dungeoncrasher ACF
Monk 2 - deflect arrows
Destructive rage
Zhent ftr 3 - SF: intimidate
Intimidating rage
Ftr 4 - Resolve ACF

room for improvement here I feel - seems like more of a stunt build than a useful character

Offline ZombieGirl

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 01:45:01 AM »
Thousand Faced Assassin
Heres a gestalt i made for ya, its one of my favorite characters by far. The Thousand Faced Assassin (Inspired by Melona from the anime "Queen's Blade").

A bit of background on Melona:
Melona is a demonic 'bunny' goo girl, known in the underworld as the Thousand Faced Assassin. She earned this name due to her ability to mimic her enemies on the battlefield, copying their abilities and appearances perfectly, just so they could be slain by their own hands. She is able to freely shapeshift between different forms and mimic each forms unique abilities, and although they aren't as powerful as their originals, they're still amply effective enough to kill with. Melona is extremely resilient to damage, being made of goo and such, injuries inflicted by a melee weapon, regardless of the power behind the attack, seems to be shrugged off and ignored as any wounds inflicted instantly close up.

The D&D Version:
It's not your 'run of the mill' tank, its quite a lot more than that, however it stays true to the tank 'concept' in that it can absorb excessive amounts of damage and keep chuggin along :). Despite its misleading name, its quite capable of fulfilling the group role of 'tank', very adequately so i might add! The chart above does not take into consideration distributed attributes. Needless to say, the build benefits from a high con and high charisma. Strength is unimportant thanks to Polymorph Self and Shapechange, as well as Binder benefits.

This character excels at adapting to, and surviving any situation. With access to binder vestiges, it can pass as a spell caster, it can pass as a thief or rogue, it can pass as a druid or ranger, as well as mimic a large variety of other persona. With its highly adaptable ability set, it can change its appearance to match the role, allowing it to fit in with any scene, a chameleon through and through. And when it finally meets its enemies in combat and slays them, not only does it heal and become stronger for it, but immediately shifts into the enemy it slew, gaining access to all its abilities, hence its name "Thousand Faced Assassin", how about that for throwing enemies a curve ball? Its inherently high HP and solid defensive abilities allow it to act as the group tank without much effort at all. Its inherently high saves, and ability to boost them further both before and mid-combat ensure it can shake off most spells thrown at it.

Defense/Tanking-related Benefits:
  • Fast Healing 2-5
  • +6 Natural Armor
  • Polymorph Self (at will) (8HD form limit) - 100% healing whenever desired
  • Shapechange (Upon draining an enemy to death)
  • Access to Binder Vestiges with a soul binding level of 18th (access to 8th level vestiges)
  • +2 to Saves, Skill checks, ability checks, +4 to Con, +4 to Dexterity upon successfully draining an enemy with an attack
  • Cha Bonus to AC (while unarmored)
  • +10ft movement bonus
  • Immunity to Fear, energy drain and negative levels
  • Slippery Mind

Offense-related Benefits:
  • Drain 2 negative levels per successful natural melee attack
  • 4 claw attacks to start with, can be expanded upon with binder vestiges (bite attacks, gore attacks etc), feats, and certain spells made permanent.
  • Summon Oozes at will to act as additional tanks, distractions, or damage dealers
  • Access to 8th level binder vestiges and all their special abilities, easily deal with enemies whom you cant drain
  • Pounce, Rake and Rend
  • buncha other stuff im probably missing since its late xP

The great thing about this character is it can act as Tank/Meatshield, Damage Dealer (well, not necessarily 'damage' but you get the idea), Sneaker, Crowd Controller, Trapfinder, Party Face, and much more. It can fly, it can teleport, it can shift through walls and shift through people. Hell, it can even blend! This character can be as simple or complicated as the person playing it desires. I understand the player doesn't wish to deal with 'spells' or things similar to them, which is why they can just gloss over the vestiges, pick the ones they wish to use and just stick with that, for the entire game if they so desired. However they will at the very least, always have the -option- (something most characters don't have the luxury of, unless they're built with having options in mind) to change their characters bonuses and abilities when they want, as well as allow them to overcome certain shortcomings and obstacles that tanks will face in the game.



Resources Used:
Players Handbook (Fighter, Ranger)
Tome of Magic (Binder)
Magic of Incarnum (Totemist)
Complete Warrior (Swashbuckler)
Dragon Compendium (Battle Dancer)
Book of Vile Darkness (Thrall of Juiblex, Soul Eater)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 04:40:58 AM by ZombieGirl »

Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 07:56:40 AM »
Very nice!
I reckon at ECL 8 Dhalev-Nar would be the go to vestige, with girralon claws totem bound, wormtail belt and a utility pick.

I see the thinking behind swashbuckler - escape artist ranks. I'd be interested in your reasoning for picking ranger over barbarian or variant paladin since the skills have to come from the battledancer side that level.

Stats could be Str 16, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 4!, Wis 10, Cha 17+1
With the arrangement above we have: AC 26
baleful moan DC 17
Share damage DC 17

Can the battledancer unarmed strike be added to the secondary attack sequence ie. claw +13/+8 and 3 claws +8 and IUS +5?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 02:40:00 PM by Noliar »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 08:36:52 AM »
First build:
Big Bob Threetotems


Goliath
Str 20+1 (31 raging), Dex 12, Con 18 (22 raging), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8


Goliath LA 1
GLA 1/ Barbarian (Lion Totem, Mountain Rage)1//GLA 1/ Scout 1
...
A similar option would be to play a human, but take Jotunbrud.  Then in place of the Goliath LA, take Mineral Warrior.  Only real difference is that you're still using human-sized weapons.

...Well, that and no War Hulk...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 08:38:26 AM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline Tshern

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 08:48:43 AM »
Goliath doesn't qualify for War Hulk anyway, not without raging.
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Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 08:58:30 AM »
Goliath doesn't qualify for War Hulk anyway, not without raging.
which is why extra rage is an important feat. Of course, when he's not raging No Time to Think is not a class feature so he can use skills like survival.  ;D

Offline ZombieGirl

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 10:15:37 AM »
Very nice!
I reckon at ECL 8 Dahlver-Nar would be the go to vestige, with girralon claws totem bound, wormtail belt and a utility pick.

I see the thinking behind swashbuckler - escape artist ranks. I'd be interested in your reasoning for picking ranger over barbarian or variant paladin since the skills have to come from the battledancer side that level.

Stats could be Str 16, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 4!, Wis 10, Cha 17+1
With the arrangement above we have: AC 26
baleful moan DC 17
Share damage DC 17

Can the battledancer unarmed strike be added to the secondary attack sequence ie. claw +13/+8 and 3 claws +8 and IUS +5?

it was simply for theme really, you honestly can go either way with barb or paladin, for better HD/ACFs (or anything else with +2 fort +1 BAB at lvl1). In the grand scheme of things for this character, i didn't see it making a huge difference in the long run. As far as unarmed strikes mixing in with natural attacks, i have no idea, i see MoMFs doing it although im not sure what rules they rely on for governing that sort of thing. So i assume if the MoMFs can pull it off so can this character. Im not very knowledgeable in that area though, perhaps someone else can answer that for me. :)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:32:00 AM by ZombieGirl »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 11:43:47 AM »
Goliath doesn't qualify for War Hulk anyway, not without raging.
which is why extra rage is an important feat. Of course, when he's not raging No Time to Think is not a class feature so he can use skills like survival.  ;D
Or Craft (Alchemy)... Bruce Banner for the win!

Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 06:55:55 PM »
I've been thinking some more about the Champion of the Black Court and the 4th level of Warshaper is not optimal - starting Soul Eater that level is stronger even if we just think about keeping up hit points. Against live enemies it is clearly better to start each round with 5+ temp HP (because it almost certainly drained levels the previous round) than quick healing 2 and it puts down enemies much faster. Even when it can't drain enemies in an encounter it will normally start with 5+ temp HP which makes it better off for the first 2 rounds and its saves will be better.

Quick heal 2 is nice and would save on resources but the party has other sources of healing so I think Warshaper 4 can be left to later levels if it is taken at all. Thoughts?


Also, does anyone know of any official published items along the lines of rust monster hide armor?


Offline Noliar

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 06:20:54 PM »
Aaaand what we have is some sort of rogue archer. Whose item picks seem designed to hide from the party. Well at least it has good reflex saves.  :banghead

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 07:19:23 PM »
Facepalm,
I was about to +1 binder, totemist, soul eater

And mention warforged(bite attack), snap kick and monks belt
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Offline carnivore

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Re: Gestalt tank builds
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 04:57:40 PM »
how about something simple:


Warblade 8//Warlock 8

4d6 EB

Invocations:
Least:
Eldritch Glaive
See the Unseen
Miasmic Cloud

Lesser:
Fell Flight
Walk Unseen

Manuvers:
1st lvl:
Steel Wind
Moment of Perfect Mind
Charging Minotaur
Stone Bones
Steely Strike

2nd lvl:
Action Before Thought

3rd lvl:
Iron Heart Surge

Stances:
Hunters Sense
Punishing Stance

Great hp, Full BAB, nice manuvers .... Invocations, Ranged and Melee Touch Attacks

 :D
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 05:16:28 PM by carnivore »