Author Topic: Hacking into True Necromancer  (Read 10516 times)

Offline InnaBinder

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Onna table
    • View Profile
Hacking into True Necromancer
« on: June 18, 2012, 09:00:08 AM »
As a random thought exercise, it occurs to me that Libris Mortis' True Necromancer PrC would be less awful (note I don't say "great") if two conditions were met: 1) You went into it without the intent to finish it, at least pre-epic level, and 2) you used a PrC with its own progression to fulfill either the arcane or divine casting requirements.  I've no doubt someone else has had a similar conclusion before.  Doing it this way means you can aim for specific gains from the True Necromancer, and you won't need to worry about the dual lost progression, because the caster level increases for either the arcane or divine sides will simply increase numeric effects, without needing to sink an extra Practiced Caster feat into keeping spell levels relevant.

With this goal in mind, which PrCs would make the best choices for leading into True Necromancer, and which break points would you aim for?
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

shugenja handbook; talk about it here

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 10:48:59 AM »
It's fine if you go in as a Beholder Mage / Ur-Priest.
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline InnaBinder

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Onna table
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 12:56:57 PM »
It's fine if you go in as a Beholder Mage / Ur-Priest.
Given the acknowledged power of both Beholder Mage and Ur-Priest, that's essentially a given.  Both make True Necromancer utterly an afterthought, though, which is not the point of this exercise.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

shugenja handbook; talk about it here

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 01:04:27 PM »
It's fine if you go in as a Beholder Mage / Ur-Priest.
Given the acknowledged power of both Beholder Mage and Ur-Priest, that's essentially a given.  Both make True Necromancer utterly an afterthought, though, which is not the point of this exercise.
Replace Beholder Mage with something like Suel Arcanamach, then. Ur-Priest is not nearly as insane as BM. And Ur-Priest + True Necro makes for a nicely flavored combo, I think, as well.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 01:12:30 PM »
Does Shooting Star Ranger make you an arcane caster? Because a SS/Mystic Ranger could work on the arcane side, with Ur-Priest.

Alternatively, how about Ur Priest/Demonologist?
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 01:15:22 PM »
Does Shooting Star Ranger make you an arcane caster? Because a SS/Mystic Ranger could work on the arcane side, with Ur-Priest.

Alternatively, how about Ur Priest/Demonologist?
I thought Mystic Ranger was Divine based.

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 01:17:50 PM »
Does Shooting Star Ranger make you an arcane caster? Because a SS/Mystic Ranger could work on the arcane side, with Ur-Priest.

Alternatively, how about Ur Priest/Demonologist?
I thought Mystic Ranger was Divine based.

That's why I asked about Shooting Star.  SotAO lets you cast arcanes for entering purposes, but you can't advance.
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 04:46:54 PM »
Could you figure out a way to qualify for both sides with one class? Then it would be worth it. And super cheesy.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 05:15:39 PM »
Could you figure out a way to qualify for both sides with one class? Then it would be worth it. And super cheesy.

Sha'ir?
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 10:09:22 PM »
Can Sha'ir even cast necromancy spells? lol but yeah that would work. Alternate Source spell could arguably work, but Sha'ir is the safest bet. Then you'd make a pretty nice spellcaster.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline kikage

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 10:37:00 PM »
I don't think they can cast Summon Undead II as a divine spell. If you can fix that, you can get in. I assume you gain double spellcasting progression w/ true necro, if you were to single class it?

Edit: They also need access to the death domain.
Double edit: Also rebuking undead.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:39:40 PM by kikage »

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 10:40:35 PM »
Is there a domain with Summon Undead on it? and yeah you'd get double progression with it, which would be really really powerful. And reek of cheese.

Dip cleric for death domain and rebuking I guess?
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline kikage

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 11:11:31 PM »
Well, if you wanted to keep the cheese, you could get the death domain spells w/ a feat, and take a level of Dread Necro for the rebuking. DM allowing of course.

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 11:16:18 PM »
Well since you are taking a dip level anyways might as well take the level in cleric for both rebuking and the death domain. No feat required that way.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 762
  • Former Lord of the Kitchen Sink
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 03:15:48 AM »
there's Ur-Priest with Sublime Chord, but the prereq's really start to add up....

Warlock(or DFA), Ur-Priest, True Necromancer could be... interesting with dips for prereq's...  :shrug

EDIT: A Raptoran Skypledged might help with divine spell prereq's
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:04:05 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
The Emperor
Can you find the Wumpus?

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 06:41:06 PM »
Oh I like the Warlock/Urpriest idea with the unlimited animate dead and such. You're right. Could be interesting.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline InnaBinder

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Onna table
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 10:08:28 PM »
Death Delver wouldn't be of any help here, I think, right?
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

shugenja handbook; talk about it here

Offline widow

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 11:34:31 PM »
Well if you can really dual progress one class with both arcane and divine casting, I would try a cleric/ Eldrich Master.

Cleric 5/ Eldrich Master 4/ True Necromancer 11

Eldrich Master is from dragon 280.  At level 4 it grants access to another classes spell list of your choice and these spells are cast as arcane spells reguardless of how the spells are normally cast.  Just take arcane schooling or whatever that regional feat is that grants the ability to cast arcane spells for eldrich master entry.  EM does not progress spell casting but grants a spell slot one level higher than you can currently cast at level 3.  With 11 levels of Truenecro, you can get 7 levels of dual progression making up the 4 levels lost to EM.

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 09:59:57 AM »
Wow that Eldritch Master ability is NEAT.

Is there some way we could cheese into something like Cloistered Cleric 4/ Ur-Priest 1/ Eldritch Master 4/ True Necromancer 11?
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Hacking into True Necromancer
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 10:33:04 AM »
Wow that Eldritch Master ability is NEAT.

Is there some way we could cheese into something like Cloistered Cleric 4/ Ur-Priest 1/ Eldritch Master 4/ True Necromancer 11?

Ur-Priest removes all previous divine casting ability.