Opinions on duskblade wizard ur-priest factotum (AKA:"I want to do everything!")

[xzyx]

Ok, this is gonna be cheesy, I warn.

This character is more of a concept for now, as I can't try him (too cheesy for one of the campaigns I'm playing and not cheesy enough for the other). But I wanted to know if it works, so I'm posting it here for appreciation ^^

I have never used the point-buy system in any game I played, so I won't post stats, but the primary stats for this build (which is quite MAD) are intelligence, wisdom and dexterity. Strength is pretty much a dump, but good to have a positive modifier, at least, and con is mildly important.

It's just a concept so far. I'm only avoiding dragon mags, because they are harder to get a DM to accept.

Here's the deal:

Strongheart Halfling -

 Talenta Warrior (Eberron campaign setting or player's guide, I'm not sure)
Extend spell


Duskblade 1

Duskblade 2 - Combat casting for free

Duskblade 3 - Persistent spell

Fighter 1 - Boomerang daze

Fighter 2- Boomerang ricochet

Wizard 1 - Martial wizard variant, swap scribe scroll for point blank shot
Precise shot

Abjurant champion 1

Abjurant champion 2

Spellthief 1 - Master spellthief

Abjurant champion 3

Abjurant champion 4

Abjurant champion 5
Arcane strike, martial arcanist

Ur-Priest 1

Ur- Priest 2 -rebuke undead

Contemplative 1 - extra domain
Divine metamagic (persist) --> persist divine power to make up for lost caster levels, as BAB = Caster level due to martial arcanist from abjurant champion.

2 more contemplative levels and one of Sacred Exorcist for turn undead (and another persisted spell per day).

Then, 3 levels of factotum o get INT bonus to all STR and DEX checks, including initiative and attack. Plus, cunning insight and cunning knowledge!

Then, he can get pretty much anything that advances divine caster progression. Maybe even go back to Ur-Priest, or advance in mystic theurge (ur-priest and duskblade, for instance), just because he can.

Or, if he has able learner, go Chameleon 2 and do pretty much anything with that floating feat of his.


I'm not sure if master spellthief gives complete caster levels or merely effective ones, but a feat for the ability to cast in light armor and steal spells with sneak attacks is great. Also, arcane channeling makes nice combos and I get full wizard and cleric (ur-priest) casting; and as icying on the cake, the ability to use my boomerang to steal spells from 2 enemies and daze them with a pretty wicked save (sacrificing 1 3 level spell I get 3d4 + 6 extra damage; I can use some enchantment on the boomerang so it gives some more damage - like a holy sword for +5 and + 2d6 vs. evil, or make it flaming burst so I can get a pretty wicked DC on the daze).

Also, I can get a pretty good CA without working too hard:

9 from shield spell + either 11 from greater mage armor (if house ruled that abjurant champion ability works with mage armor) or +5 from a mithral breastplate + some DEX, for an AC ranging from 24 to 30 around level 12.

At higher levels, a Robe of the Archmagi (+8 AC) could substitute the breastplate, coupled with a monk's belt to add WIS +1 to AC (which means at least +13 AC, asuming you have WIS 19 to cast 9th level spells!)

So, what do you think?

[Vampireshado]

Hmm that is very MAD as you already said. It's a very odd Gish build. Maybe drop the fighter all together (fighter makes me sick ) and just do a Duskblade 3/ Wizard 1/ Shooting Star Ranger 4/ Spellthief 1/ Ur-Priest 4/ Abjurant Champion (Somehow applying this to Ur-Priest) 5/ Spelldancer 1/ Hathran 1. Not in that order though. Then take Master Spellthief and Sword of the Arcane Order for some very cheesy, but not completely broken CL and some very nice gish abilities.

EDIT: Also take DMM for what you dont cover with spelldancer and then buy an acorn of far travel and lots of nightsticks.

[xzyx]

I'm not familiar with shooting star ranger or sword of the arcane order, actually. Which books are they from?
I got fighter mainly because I like feats =D

And no need to apply abjurant champion to Ur-Priest. It's better if applied to wizard (so my BAB becomes wizard caster levels, which are more precious than ur-priest ones), then get some PrC to advance ur-priest, it isn't really hard.

I avoided easily bannable cheese like nightsticks because they are  too silly hehe.

[sirpercival]

OK, so what you want is a dual-casting gish?

Alright, here's a Cha-SAD dual-caster gish build for you.  Though having a good Int for skill reqs is pretty important.

Crusader 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Abjurant Champion 2/Warrior Skald 1/Divine Crusader 1/X 1/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8

X should be a class which grants you +1 divine spellcasting and a bonus domain.  You'll need Sanctum Spell or Versatile/Heighten to qualify for SC.  You have 9th-level arcane and divine casting, and are quite gishy.  Plus if you play as a silverbrow human, you can DFI yourself.  Get some domain draughts or a wand of Substitute Domain and go to town.

[xzyx]

OK, so what you want is a dual-casting gish?

Alright, here's a Cha-SAD dual-caster gish build for you.  Though having a good Int for skill reqs is pretty important.

Crusader 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Abjurant Champion 2/Warrior Skald 1/Divine Crusader 1/X 1/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8

X should be a class which grants you +1 divine spellcasting and a bonus domain.  You'll need Sanctum Spell or Versatile/Heighten to qualify for SC.  You have 9th-level arcane and divine casting, and are quite gishy.  Plus if you play as a silverbrow human, you can DFI yourself.  Get some domain draughts or a wand of Substitute Domain and go to town.

This build is pretty awesome =D


I didn't use some of those tricks because I'm still somewhat knew to D&D and mastering one class at a time, and haven't really got to play with bards, sublime chords and stuff from tome of battle yet.

I was reconsidering things and I'm not sure that build I suggest is that much MAD anymore. The 3 factotum levels allow him to add his INT to attack, damage, initiative and AC. That pretty much compensates for having low STR and DEX. He wouldn't need CHA either because duskblade spells are minimal and all his rebukes/turns would go to divine metamagic anyway.

So he'd need as much INT as possible and some WIS and CON. A bit DEX and STR would be nice, and CHA would be dumb stat (with 14 CHA and a level of sacred exorcist, he can divine meta-persist divine power and then nothing more is needed). Might not work very well with the point buy system, but if stats are rolled, it's not hard to get 1 great stat, 1 good stats and 4 medium stats (at least most of my chars had this configuration).

So, I put factotum lower to acess Brains over Brawl earlier and he may be very well feasible. I can even delay 1 caster level and make Duskblade 3/Factotum 3/Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Spellthief 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Ur-Priest 2/Sacred Exorcist 1/X 4

And X may be 2 levels of contemplative and 2 of chameleon or Hospitaller 4, for gishy goodness or anything like that.

Then I could arcane channel arcane and divine spells, have a floating feat, almost full divine casting, full arcane casting with divine power, steal spells, and add inteligence to everything there is to add.

Am I right or am I getting things wrong?

[sirpercival]

You don't care about Str or Dex at all.  Dump 'em.  You know why?  You can cast polymorph.

[xzyx]

You don't care about Str or Dex at all.  Dump 'em.  You know why?  You can cast polymorph.

Hmm indeed that is correct! Makes it even better: I could polymorph to some beast with high DEX, STR and natural armor. Then, I'd add my non-changed intelligence to this and get even better results. Smart!

And it means I effectively only need a bit of CON (for when I'm caught un polymorphed) and lots and lots of INT and just enough WIS to cast (as I'll be a gish, I won't need extremely high divine DCs, I can use my divine spells for buffing). Not really MAD anymore, is it?

[sirpercival]

Well, your new Con doesn't affect your HP, only your Fort saves and Concentration checks.  You still need high Con for HP.

If you look in the Handbooks section, there's a discussion of polymorph forms.

[Vampireshado]

Oh yeah I like Sirpercival's build much better. Mine was just silly CL stacking, but his has much more substance.

[sirpercival]

Lol.  I eat CL stacking for breakfast.  I can get a CL of 9.3e5070 for 48 hours.

[Vampireshado]

Yeah I saw that earlier haha. That's is pretty ridiculous. What is the overall record without infinite loops?

[Ziegander]

The 3 factotum levels allow him to add his INT to attack, damage, initiative and AC. That pretty much compensates for having low STR and DEX.

Brains over Brawn does not work like you think it does. It allows you to add your Intelligence modifier to Strength and Dexterity based skill and ability checks. It does not tell you to use your Intelligence modifier for everything that you use your Strength and Dexterity modifiers for. To put it simply, with 3 Factotum levels you do not add INT to attack rolls, damage rolls, or to AC. But you do add it to Initiative (that's a Dexterity-based ability check).

[ImperatorK]

To put it simply, with 3 Factotum levels you do not add INT to attack rolls, damage rolls, or to AC.

Actually, at 3rd level, you do add Int to attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws and AC thanks to Cunning Insight and Cunning Defense, but you have to pay Inspiration points.

[Ziegander]

To put it simply, with 3 Factotum levels you do not add INT to attack rolls, damage rolls, or to AC.

Actually, at 3rd level, you do add Int to attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws and AC thanks to Cunning Insight and Cunning Defense, but you have to pay Inspiration points.

Well... yes, sort of, but only in a very limited capacity. I didn't get the impression that was what xzyx meant, but maybe it is. In any case, the ability to, three times per encounter, add INT to attack, damage, or AC definitely does not compensate well for having low Str/Dex.

[ImperatorK]

Well, he didn't specifically say "Brains Over Brawn" (in that paragraph at least), so theoretically he was correct.

[xzyx]

I was wrong about AC and damage, obviously, but I thought it could be applied to attack (isn't it a STR or DEX based check?). But there is always polymorph to make up for that, or a thousand fountains of inspiration.

But, ok then it isn't that good. Sure It was just silly CL stacking but I guess it was more of an experiment than a real build.

[sirpercival]

How important is it to you to be able to dual-cast?  If you pick just arcane or divine then it would be much easier to build the gish you want.

[darqueseid]

delete: bad post
wierdly I was posting in another area and it posted here instead?

[sirpercival]

DMM: persist isn't available?  does the DM consider that too cheesy? 

DMM: quicken?  is usually a sub-optimal replacement.

I'm not actually a fan of DMM other than those two.  the feat requirement is too high as you mention....

Um, how could you forget about DMM: Invisible?

[Vampireshado]

Um, how could you forget about DMM: Invisible?

+1 to you sir!