Author Topic: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?  (Read 33894 times)

Offline veekie

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2012, 01:10:29 AM »
^^
I'm...fairly sure you can't do that using PF psionics material alone. The 1k damage part that is.
Not without an infinite PP/ML trick somewhere.
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Offline littha

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2012, 06:18:20 AM »
Acceptance of infinite combos....and banning threats if you call the perpetrators on it.

This is why nobody should be playing 3.path online imho.  Had this occurred in real life, said player(s) wouldn't have even thought about attempting this (for fear of getting a book thrown at them).  As a co-dm who caught a player red handed doing this, it was basically easier for me and the primary dm (who was leaving anyway) to just let it go and hope the offending player would stop.

However, this wasn't the case and the final "epic battle" was quickly trivialized by the combo (fully half the players didn't get a turn!).  The thing I learned from the whole experience is this:  Don't bother planning any "special" encounters with munchkins.

My favorite part?  The offending player and his buddy (who's character he made) telling the primary dm that he "Can't do anything about our psionics...there is no counter for it."  They did this constantly and it was just in bad taste all around.  After using their abilities to do about 1000dmg in a "pseudo celerity" round, they offed the bad guy instantly.  Suffice it to say, these are the players who get psionics banned and RIGHTFULLY SO!  Anyway, that's my rant and this just happened a few days ago.  It's completely turned me off of the game as a whole.

I am sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience with psionics but it really isn't broken, at least no more so than normal casting is.

By the sounds of it I wouldn't put it past those players to try and ignore the pp cap on powers or exaggerate their pp totals
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 06:20:09 AM by littha »

Offline veekie

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2012, 06:39:49 AM »
Lets see:
Temporal Acceleration: 11pp+4 per additional round. Theres nothing specifically against stacking it, apparently(and anybody doing this crap would be doing that), but it'd be hideously expensive.
Damage powers: One dice per pp is the best rate you're getting. 1k damage would take to the tune of 285pp or so by the brute force method, Delay Power(5 round cap) or Energy Wall(ML rounds cap, non-augmentable) is needed to pull it off.

So...pretty sure they're just ignoring the ML cap on PP spent.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Soft Insanity

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2012, 08:45:14 PM »
So...pretty sure they're just ignoring the ML cap on PP spent.

Care to explain or link this real quick?  Is there a limit to the total amount of PP you can spend each round or something?  I thought that was per power.  Anyway, if that's the case, then psionics doesn't seem so bad.

Offline littha

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2012, 08:56:24 PM »
It is per power, no more than your manifester level. Unless you have some way of gaining huge piles of standard actions it is nigh impossible to spend more than about 60pp in one round at level 20 and most of that will be move/swift action.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2012, 03:34:28 AM »
Here's a link for you to help show the source (Expanded Psionics Handbook + SRD)

 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powerList.htm#augment
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2012, 07:35:43 AM »
It is per power, no more than your manifester level. Unless you have some way of gaining huge piles of standard actions

Which is hardly a problem for psionic characters. They're the king of action abuse with just a couple books , while even other casters will need to dig trough a lot of splatbooks plus core to get anywhere close. For example

(click to show/hide)

Like Soft Insanity said, his players used a "pseudo celerity". Who cares if you can only expend a limited number of PP per power when you can manifest a butload of powers in a single round?

Offline Soft Insanity

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2012, 08:51:23 AM »
Like Soft Insanity said, his players used a "pseudo celerity". Who cares if you can only expend a limited number of PP per power when you can manifest a butload of powers in a single round?

Every single one of those things was in use I believe.  The other thing that happened was time regressions or "save state hacks" as some of the more astute players put it.  That actually resulted in an infinite combo (something with is expressly forbidden), but the primary DM said "screw it...it's the last game I'm running".

The horrible part about all this is that I was the only one willing to rail against these types of abuses...and all it got me was a nice ban (I threw books at them).  Yes, I am aware that you can do "x y and z" and the RAW allows it...but should you?  There's high power, then there's theoretical power.

The other bad part is that the abuser(s) somehow managed to get full control of the site, probably due to their knowing the rules the best.  All in all, it was just a huge waste of my time.  You know something is wrong with the players when they tell the dm "You can't do that" or "You can't defend against my win button"(which he could have but chose not to).

Now, if only the primary dm had taken my advice and used "ice assassins" against the players.

Offline veekie

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2012, 09:04:03 AM »
Ah yes, not achievable using PF psionics alone then.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline nijineko

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2012, 01:37:09 AM »
It is per power, no more than your manifester level. Unless you have some way of gaining huge piles of standard actions

Which is hardly a problem for psionic characters. They're the king of action abuse with just a couple books , while even other casters will need to dig trough a lot of splatbooks plus core to get anywhere close. For example

(click to show/hide)

Like Soft Insanity said, his players used a "pseudo celerity". Who cares if you can only expend a limited number of PP per power when you can manifest a butload of powers in a single round?

sychronicity does not stack with itself. multiple effects from same source overlap, not stack, unless specifically called out as a stacking effect. though some disagree with the application in question.

however, if you can manage to get metamind 10 font of power and temporal reiteration, then you can have your big red.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 01:43:26 AM by nijineko »

Offline nijineko

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2012, 01:49:05 AM »
My favorite part?  The offending player and his buddy (who's character he made) telling the primary dm that he "Can't do anything about our psionics...there is no counter for it."  They did this constantly and it was just in bad taste all around.  After using their abilities to do about 1000dmg in a "pseudo celerity" round, they offed the bad guy instantly.  Suffice it to say, these are the players who get psionics banned and RIGHTFULLY SO!  Anyway, that's my rant and this just happened a few days ago.  It's completely turned me off of the game as a whole.

The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency.

Psionics-Magic Transparency
Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.

...

Quote
Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

...

Quote
Powers and Spells with Opposite Effects
Powers and spells with opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some powers and spells negate or counter each other. This is a special effect that is noted in a power’s or spell’s description.


yeah, i don't think either of those players know their rules.

Offline Halinn

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2012, 03:57:06 AM »
yeah, i don't think either of those players know their rules.
Or worse, knowingly ignores them.

Offline Soft Insanity

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2012, 07:18:01 AM »
They both used "burrowing power", and the primary DM flatout refused to put up any sort of protection against planar travel (such as Forbiddance).  His reasoning?  That would nerf the characters who use teleport.  However he saw no problem nerfing anyone who wasn't a full caster/manifester with various spells.

I should say that 3.path is not only Pathfinder, it includes updated 3.5.  Anyway, yes, I along with a few other players feel massively cheated as this campaign arc lasted nearly a year and saw over 150 games (about 70 of which I ran).  What makes it worse is that the DM was warned many times that this would happen....and it was already occurring in all the combats leading up to the finale.  Not a single combat lasted past round .5 (as in not everyone got a chance to act, especially the enemies.).  The offending players maintain this is how d&d is played.  If that's the case, it's time to find a new hobby.

Offline veekie

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2012, 12:16:41 PM »
Rocket tag(aka Round 0.5) is a problem of higher level D&D, but it looks like the usual trick of putting a no-save, no PR attack power behind Burrowing Power, then gleefully ignoring either the rules regarding stuff like PP caps or using an infinite action(or pp to action) combo
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2012, 12:55:16 PM »
That's why my frenzied berserker was Soo much fun.... He stirred up his own battles when they weren't prepared.

I don't know if I would have nearly quit because of a retcon, but it was appropriate I guess. Since it prevented the death by wish of another pc will I was forcecaged and the noob possibly quitting. They were offering me in order to get safe passage for the rest of them, which I was not ok with, obviously.

The retcon was, the DM removed the holes that I could talk through AFTER I wished the other pc dead.

But it was still worth doing, since this DM is known to think well on his feet and have an answer for everything. But this was the only time I've seen him (and all but the noob) silent in horror as things sunk in.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2012, 01:37:50 PM »
That's why my frenzied berserker was Soo much fun.... He stirred up his own battles when they weren't prepared.

I don't know if I would have nearly quit because of a retcon, but it was appropriate I guess. Since it prevented the death by wish of another pc will I was forcecaged and the noob possibly quitting. They were offering me in order to get safe passage for the rest of them, which I was not ok with, obviously.

The retcon was, the DM removed the holes that I could talk through AFTER I wished the other pc dead.

But it was still worth doing, since this DM is known to think well on his feet and have an answer for everything. But this was the only time I've seen him (and all but the noob) silent in horror as things sunk in.

Sounds like an interesting story, care to share it in entirety?

Offline bobtheapple

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2012, 03:12:48 PM »
I can only really think of one game that I flat out quit as a player, though there have been several that I just allowed to die as either a player or a GM.

A friend of mine and I were invited to play with a group of people we had never played with before, and from the outset it seemed fine.  All books were allowed, and we could make any character we wanted, but it was going to be a viking-esk campaign.  I made a Valkyre-Bear-Viking themed character, mechanically a stalwart battle sorcerer with designs on going into Exalted Arcanist and Sentinel of Bahari.  The GM said that was fine, and he liked the idea.  My friend made a piratical Dwarf named Saltbeard; I think he was going for Dread Pirate.  The day before the game session I was informed that I wouldn't be able to get into 2 prcs, because 2 prcs was 'too overpowered.'  I tried to tell him that my character wasn't overpowered, and that the strength of a character depends more on WHICH prc you had, not how many.  He'd have none of it, and I had to change my character if I wanted to play.  So I switched my character to a Sorcerer/Incantatrix instead, which made him happy because it wasn't 2 prcs, whatever.  The day of the game, he told my friend that his dwarf couldn't be named Saltbeard, because there were no sea-dwelling dwarves, and he had to change his name. 

At this point, both my friend and I got rather upset, because dammit, if the Dwarf wanted to be called Saltbeard, even if it wasn't his birth name, he should be able to be called Saltbeard.  Its a fine dwarfy name.  Again, the GM essentially laid down an ultimatum: if we wanted to play, the name would have to be changed, because there couldn't possibly, EVER be a dwarf named Saltbeard in this game.  Very upset, we decided to give the game one session, since we were already there.

The very first thing in the game had us tossed into a pitched battle between Vikings (who were our allies) and a land-lubing group.  The GM turns to me and tells me that since I'm the party mage, he expects me to deal with most of battle, and it should be fairly easy.  I blink at him a few times, write it off as nothing, and cast a non-lethal fireball into the largest group (I had a focus in metamagic so I was packing a bunch of weird feats that I planned to use with Arcane Thesis with Wings of Flurry when we got to that level, we were only level 6 though.  Being a good character, and not really understanding the whole combat situation because we received no backstory, I figured it was a reasonable course of action.)  The GM went off about since I didn't specify I was only aiming for enemies, the roaring flames engulfed the soldiers and vikings alike, and they screams of agony fill the air as they die horribly, at which point I remind him that it was a non-lethal fireball.  He ignores me and starts talking about the viking leader turning on me, axe in hand, demanding to know why I killed so many of his men, to which both my firend and I say at once "IT WAS A NON-LETHAL FIREBALL."  To which the GM responds, "Huh?"  And I show him my character sheet and the book I got it from.  He then asked all the other players if they had heard me say that it was non-lethal, and they all say yes, they had, and then I point to my blurb of a character backstory, which says I refrain from lethal violence as much as possible.  He finally caves and lets the non-lethal fireball pass, and has the vikings all run up and coup-de-grace all of the unconscious enemies.

To which I think, oh well, it must be really important that those enemies die.  Only no, its not important at all, because those enemies and the viking allies we had were never mentioned again.  After that we got into the real heart of the GM's style.  You see, he already had everything planned out.  And I'm not just talking about railroading, but the results of every single action was already decided before dice were rolled.  To wit, as a sorcerer, I had bad to hit and bad AC; I was a bookish, weak character who is good at spells.  The party fighter was a strong brute that's good at hitting things.  My friend was a sneaky rogue who was good at attacking from shadows, but not good at fighting otherwise.  That was all nice and all, only I was a stalwart battle sorcerer with primarily self buffs to help me in combat and 18 strength.  The party fighter was something like a drow fighter, high dex and light armor, and was mainly focused in tripping and disarming.  And my friend was a flanking focused rogue, because he saw we were mostly melee oriented.  We had a fourth player who was forced to play a divine caster because we needed 'party balance,' but I don't remember them much.  What I do remember is getting into a one-on-one fight with soldier, and to the GM's surprise, I tried to attack him with a weapon!  I rolled a 19, to which the GM immediately announces I missed, and moves on to the fighter, who hits a different soldier on a 12.  Since for me, a 19 is a 27, I ask what armor the enemy is wearing, and the GM says standard chainmail.  Already realizing what was up, I reminded him about my total bonuses from strength, and how I had a rogues BaB, to which he didn't really listen.  So the next round I cast true strike (after being beat on several times, he didn't say their attack rolls and never asked for my AC, I figured at the time they rolled high, but now I think otherwise) and then the round after that, I attack, and roll a 14 or something, to which he says I miss again.  I remind him that True Strike is a +20 to hit, to which he says "Oh, then I guess you hit then."  Meanwhile the fighter is going fine with average rolls, and hasn't been hit once despite our AC being about the same.

After the fight, we get to do some roleplaying, and the GM ignores us and talks to someone who wasn't even playing, just happened to be hanging out.  Whatever.  I manage to convince the group with liberal use of prestidigitation and some other nifty spells that I was a minor deity, sent to lead them to greatness in battle.  We then sat around for while waiting for the GM to get back to the game. 

After that, we had one more fight against a big monster.  The fighter swings at it, trying to trip it, and rolls low.  "Oh, I probably missed, I got a 14 total."  "Oh no, its big and slow, you hit it fine.  Roll damage."  "Actually, I want try to trip it, I get a..."  "Its too big to trip."  "I'm going to try anyway."  "Oh, well... *rolls dice* Nope, you can't trip him, he's too big."  "Okay..."  I'm up, and I go to hit the creature.  I roll a 10... "Oh, you missed.  You should really try casting a spell."  "With my bonuses, I got an 18, that's higher than the fighter."  "What?  Let me see your character sheet... why is your strength so high?"  "Because this is what I do, I hit things with a spear."  "Umm... okay, I guess you hit then."  Rogue's turn, he tumbles around for flanking, and attacks the creature's back.  "Well, you hit because of flanking, but you don't get sneak attack."  "Really?  Why not?"  "Because you only get sneak attack from the shadows."  "You get sneak attack from flanking too."  "Err, what I mean is that you don't get flanking on this creature, so you don't get sneak attack."  At this point, we were getting pretty exasperated (there had been a lot of other stuff that I can't remember) so my friend gave up and let it go.

The final straw was in the next room, however, where we met an npc dwarf that was supposed to guide us to some treasure or something.  He informed us of the backstory of the dungeon, and the war, and all of the other setting stuff, just a giant plot dump basically.  At the end of all of which I ask the dwarf his name.  "Umm..."  The GM pauses, and it becomes obvious that he never figured anyone would ask such a basic question.  Suddenly, he gets this huge $%&*-eating grin, and says, "I'm Saltbeard, the sea dwarf."  My friend and I stood up, and without a word, left the table.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2012, 03:58:51 PM »
Sounds like an interesting story, care to share it in entirety?

Unfortunately I have a partially diagnosed medical condition that makes my memory horrendous…. But I found my sheet, and with that from what I remember from ~2-3 years ago…

I was playing a CN (nearly CE) Half-Orc Barb11/FB6, with scary amounts of magic items since these people love high-level/high-power play. I decided to play the FB, since I’ve not gotten one in a higher level game, and they had been playing this campaign for a little while, so it was a quick and easy build.

This guy had absolutely no respect for the lowly women in bars. He had on several occasions taken them back to his room (but I don’t describe that stuff in detail that’s creepy) and several other times I’ve burnt down or single-handedly destroyed entire inns in a rage from not getting my way (which I DO describe in detail).



So when dividing up treasure one time…. They said there was a ring of one wish… when I heard this I perked up immediately, since I knew barbarian rage and wish went ‘well’ together. And when I found out that I was first to choose for killing to biggest bad guy this time, I almost started purring in evil thoughts. I chose the ring.

A couple weeks later, this new guy had played maybe twice with us and we were stuck in this town that we were unable to get through. So this guy primarily, decided to take the offer of my life for free passage through the town. As soon as I heard this I rage and frenzied and charged him, but got forcecaged. I grab a PHB and reread the spell and start pulling at the force bars and shouting and screaming and fighting and can’t do anything. The DM is a little smug that he has stopped me cold, since not a lot has been a challenge in melee for me.

I then in a voice of cold fury say to the new guy that locked me a Forcecage…. “I wish for you to die!”

As soon as I said that…. DM and the older players completely froze in complete, absolute shock at what I had done to this guy. The new guy didn’t really understand what just happened and the incredible power I had unleashed on his character.

The DM after about 5 seconds of being frozen reread the spell and saw that there was a version WITHOUT bars/holes, he changed to so that I could not be heard by them and the wish didn’t work. (Right now I just came to the realization that I could have wished for the Forcecage to be gone *rolls eyes*)

After the party had left, some deity had dumped my Forcecage in front of a portal to Celestia and it sucked me in… the DM told me I killed like 20-30 solars before they took me down and redeemed me…. Now roll a new character :-p


Despite all this retconing of the spell to crap on my plan of using a wish ring, this was by far…. The MOST fun I have ever had playing any character in any game.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2012, 04:47:39 PM »
@bob: I would probably have gotten into a yelling match, but I get very confrontational about these things.  Your way is the better way. 

@zook: Wow, that does sound like it was fun!

Offline littha

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Re: What Would/Has Made You Quit The Game?
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2012, 04:51:48 PM »
@bob: That is a man I would never stop punching....