Warlock - Expert advice needed.

[Silveron]

I have never played a warlock before so I am looking to the pros for help.

 I want to make sure I do not end up at 3rd level regretting my character because I picked a race that limits it, I took wrong feats, or didn't take a feat that I should of taken at first level in order to access a whole line of feats. 
Here is what I was thinking so far:

Since I get unlimited EB I plan that to be my main weapon.

Race: Unknown (I normally like to play outsiders but can't with warlock)
Feats: Extra Invocation (Plan to take flaws to get 2 extra feats)
           Obtain Familiar (warlock levels count as caster levels and have plan to get an improved familiar later)
           Point Blank Shot (to add precise and rapid shot later if this words for EB)

Invocations: Eldritch Spear: Blast range increases to 250 feet.
                     Baleful Utterance: Speak word of the dark speech and shatter objects as the shatter spell.

Is there a magic item that you can enchant as a weapon to give bonus and added effects to ranged touch attack? Like a ring or glove that I can make +5 and effects like acid damage or cold damage as you can do with weapons? So my EB would get +5 to hit and also cause 1d6 acid or cold dmg w/e the case maybe.

Only item I found for warlock is a +2 light mace that has 50 charges that let you add extra damage to EB. This seems rather lame to me.  Are there much better items out there? I really have never dealt with trying to up ranged touch attacks before.

Does any feat or item that gives bonus to ranged attacks work the same for ranged touch attacks?

I am afraid I will end up planning this character one way and then end up making a big mistake or plan to do something only to find out that it does not work that way for warlock or ranged touch attacks. So please any advice/tips is greatly welcomed.

[kitep]

There's a warlock handbook on the old board.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2915.0

(I guess this is a good time to say I prefer the way handbooks are done on this board, where the handbook and the discussion are seperate threads.)

[kitep]

I don't think you can take Extra Invocation yet.  IIRC, the extra must be 1 level less than what you can use, and since there's nothing below "least", you can't take it until you can invoke "lesser".

Some other things you might want to check out:

Hellfire Warlock PrC (Fiendish Codex II, p89)   Using their special power to increase damage means you take a point of CON damage.  This is often dealt with by taking a level of Binder (Tome of Magic) and binding Naberus (sp?), which lets you heal 1 point of ability damage/round.

Chasuble of Fell Power (CAr-148) - adds +1d6 to your EB for 8000gp, or +2d6 for 18,000gp.

Mortalbane feat (BOVD-49) - your EB is a SLA, so this lets you add +2d6 damage 5/day.

Precise shot - lets you fire into melee.  Probably won't need it, since you're doing touch attacks, so your to-hit number should be low anyway.  Still, 20% can make a big difference.

Binder Class - if you're taking it for the Hellfire class anyway, get it early.  Bind the guy who gives you "ricoshet shot", which basically lets you attack 2 different targets with the same shot.

Bind Vestige Feat (Tome of Magic-72) – lets you bind a vestige like Binder 1, but only gain 1 of the powers – but requires only a feat, not a whole level.

Rod of Eldritch Power (CM-127) - contains an invocation that can be used 5/day.  If you're in luck, your DM will let you pay 1/5th the price for 1/day, then use it for the powers that last 24 hours so you only need it 1/day.
Least – 2000gp; Lesser 8000gp, Greater 18,000gp; Dark 32,000gp

Horizon Googles (CM, p133) – gain Far Shot feat, also increases range of spells and SLA that require ranged attack rolls by +50%; 8000gp  (not needed if you take Eldritch Spear and so have a range of 250')

Codex Advocare (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) – book that grants a warlock 1 extra least invocation as long as he keeps the book on him.  Can only have 1 book at a time.  20,000gp.

Good luck!

[phaedrusxy]

Rapid Shot does not let you get an extra eldritch blast per turn. You might consider picking a psionic race, and taking Psionic Shot, though.

The only way that I know of to get multiple attacks per round with your Eldritch Blast is the Eldritch Glaive invocation, which limits you to melee only, but is definitely something worth considering.

[Solo]

Bah, warlocks are too anime and overpowered.

[kitep]

By mere luck, I stumbled across the thread Warlocks are too anime and overpowered today.  (Note: it's meant to be a parody - don't take it seriously)

Edit: oops - looks like someone else posted the same link while I was typing.

[Silveron]

kitep
Thank you!!!



I had found a warlock handbook, don't know if its same one listed, but it was too much raw data not input. Just listed everything no advice on whats good or useless. Thats why I posted on here don't want to be underpowered or take wrong feats screwing me over without noticeing it till I hit later levels and can't do anything about it. This is min/max board after all I want all the advice I can get to max it out making the most of my character.

Oh and I was tring to sneak by getting Extra Invocation at 1st level when it has no other option then to give me a 2nd least invo.

So thx guys please keep any ideas or suggestions of what you did with your chatacters going. 

[NiteCyper]

The Warlock is one of only two practical classes to access the full potential of my much-prized "Blend into Shadows" feat (Drow of the Underdark, page 47). Don't let my wording fool you, it's not home-brewed.
This style (i.e., stealth), should you choose to accept it, is tempted by the following options: the Darkstalker feat, the Unseelie Fey template, the Targetteer Fighter variant, the Hit-and-Run Tactics Fighter ACF¹, the Hengeyokai (sparrow) race, the Intensify Darkness feat, the Fade into Darkness feat and more. My advice would be more centralized has it not been so long. Have I sufficiently distracted and overwhelmed you with shinies from sound advice?

^{1 Be not fooled by the word Drow, it is not race-specific.}

[snakeman830]

Bind Vestige Feat (Tome of Magic-72) – lets you bind a vestige like Binder 1, but only gain 1 of the powers – but requires only a feat, not a whole level.

You do not get to choose which power, sadly.  Very few on here are useful.

Rod of Eldritch Power (CM-127) - contains an invocation that can be used 5/day.  If you're in luck, your DM will let you pay 1/5th the price for 1/day, then use it for the powers that last 24 hours so you only need it 1/day.
Least – 2000gp; Lesser 8000gp, Greater 18,000gp; Dark 32,000gp

Only useable with Blast Shape and Blast Essence invocations.  This seriously hinders what you can get out of it, but on the plus side, most of those invocations are situational anyway.  Swift action activation does limit you to 1 rod/round, though.

Horizon Googles (CM, p133) – gain Far Shot feat, also increases range of spells and SLA that require ranged attack rolls by +50%; 8000gp  (not needed if you take Eldritch Spear and so have a range of 250')

Or you can use it with Eldritch Spear for a 375ft range.

[Silveron]

NiteCyper - Couldn't all that be made simpler by useing the Dark template from Tome of Magic - Pact, Shadow, and TrueName Magic page 161?

Wow Hengeyokai. Never knew that race existed... Sounds FUN!!!! Thank you for suggesting it.

[zook1shoe]

The hengeyokai got updated to 3.5 to a +0 la race, so its even nicer

[Jackinthegreen]

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2997.0 is the ported (and updated I think) version of the handbook Kitep linked to.  If that's the one you commented as having too much raw information instead of recommendations, keep in mind a lot of it is for people who know the generals of what they want but need a nudge with more information.

So the question is: What do you want to do with it?  Good builds are quite often dependent on their setting because of house rules or other things change the game.  It would be very helpful to know if you have any restrictions, what your goals are with the character, etc.  Everyone wants to kick ass, so simply saying "I want a good build" doesn't really mean much.  "I want a good build that does x, y, and z" is better.

If you want some ideas for interesting builds, we can help with that if given a good direction.  The more info you give us, the more we can give you.

[NiteCyper]

NiteCyper - Couldn't all that be made simpler by useing the Dark template from Tome of Magic - Pact, Shadow, and TrueName Magic page 161?

Sadly, no, Silveron. Hiding requires two things: cover/concealment and not being observed.

You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check.

[...]

If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

The Hide in Plain Sight ability comes in two forms: (Ex)traordinary or (Su)pernatural. The Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) ability of the Dark template obviates the latter: the need to not be observed, but it still requires the former: cover or concealment. The Blend into Shadows feat, on the other hand, provides the Hide in Plain Sight (Su) ability that obsoletes the need for both. Curmudgeon from the Giant in the Playground Forums would tell you as much, as they taught me.

In terms of other comparisons, while indeed I forgot to mention the Dark template, the Dark template does not obviate the need for a good Hide check (modifier). The Fade into Darkness feat gives a bonus to Hide and is best taken by invokers, who lose the least from the otherwise costly feat. The Darkstalker feat delineates where Hide stops. Hiding in Plain Sight does not defend against the likes of non-vision-based perception such as Scent and Tremorsense. Thus, options like these are necessary to optimize the stealthy.
To make one last comparison, the Hide in Plain Sight ability from the Blend into Shadows feat is usable only so long as a source of magical darkness is nearby. The Intensify Darkness feat alleviates stress from keeping up magical darkness by making SLA castings of darkness last longer. With it, the player can fall sleep and still wake up to magical darkness.

[Unbeliever]

I've used a similar build and be pleased with it. 

I do think that Fade Into Darkness and Intensify Darkness are wasted feats, though.  Fade Into Darkness is a competence bonus, obviated by a magic item when you can afford one, which won't be long.  And, I'm not convinced on Intensify Darkness, either.  You have Darkness at will, recasting it every hour or so isn't a hardship.  Although the days duration is kind of funny, I'll admit.

This build loves some sneak attack if you can get it.  And, if you do that it, will love multiple attacks, like Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Chain.  I also like the Ambush Feats for some extra debuffing. 

P.S.:  bonus points to NiteCypher for linking to all these things.  I have them handy, but I'm sure the OP and others appreciate it. 

[cvar]

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2997.0 is the ported (and updated I think) version of the handbook Kitep linked to.  If that's the one you commented as having too much raw information instead of recommendations, keep in mind a lot of it is for people who know the generals of what they want but need a nudge with more information.

So the question is: What do you want to do with it?  Good builds are quite often dependent on their setting because of house rules or other things change the game.  It would be very helpful to know if you have any restrictions, what your goals are with the character, etc.  Everyone wants to kick ass, so simply saying "I want a good build" doesn't really mean much.  "I want a good build that does x, y, and z" is better.

If you want some ideas for interesting builds, we can help with that if given a good direction.  The more info you give us, the more we can give you.

OP mentioned that he wanted to focus on Eldritch Blast spam, which I think leaves him with Warlock/Hellfire Warlock as the base build.  Taking a level of Binder to negate the con damage seems to be the most rules safe way, so that would need to be fit in somewhere and the handbook points out that Legacy Champion can add some serious cheese to it by advancing Hellfire Warlocks bonus EB damage.

I'd start there OP.  My warlock-fu is pretty weak, but take a look at the classes mentioned and plan out for prerequisites and then see what you have open.  The handbook here doesn't have much in the way of "do x at y level" but just about everything is rated so picking through it and looking at the feats/invocations can help.

[ksbsnowowl]

Feats: Extra Invocation (Plan to take flaws to get 2 extra feats)
           Obtain Familiar (warlock levels count as caster levels and have plan to get an improved familiar later)
           Point Blank Shot (to add precise and rapid shot later if this words for EB)

As stated, extra invocation does nothing at first level.
Obtain Familiar could be good.  Remember that your familiar is treated as having the same skill ranks as you.  I assume you're going with an imp or something (air elementals are good too).  Max your ranks in UMD, and hand that familiar a wand!  Sure, it will still fail 50% of the time by 7th level, but every other round your party deals extra damage/effects.

Mortal Bane (BoVD) is an excellent feat.  As is Knowledge Devotion if you can spare the ranks in Knowledge skills.

Is there a magic item that you can enchant as a weapon to give bonus and added effects to ranged touch attack? Like a ring or glove that I can make +5 and effects like acid damage or cold damage as you can do with weapons?

There are gloves/gauntlets in the Magic Item Compendium that will add some energy damage to your EB.  Gloves of Entangling Blast are decent too; have your EB deal half damage, but the targets are entangled (no save) for 1d3 rounds.

Chaucibles of Fell Power are decent.

Does any feat or item that gives bonus to ranged attacks work the same for ranged touch attacks?

Yes.  Bracers of Archery, for example.

[Silveron]

Centering a warlock around hide seems wasted when I could do Flee the Scene and Walk Unseen at will without taking a single feat. Not knocking it, it sounds brilliant for my next Tiefling or Fey'ri character. Sadly I can't use ether race for Warlock... I just do not see the point of all of it.

Same with problem I have now in my group with me being Tiefling, I took feats to do my darkness 3x a day and I had a mask made with perm Ebon Eyes spell. However, If my groups next set of characters is anything close to our current set we currently have 6 characters and 9 animals/familiars/etc attacking as well. Me being only one who can see in magical darkness (sigh). I am not going to be soloing, so darkness and hide tricks are nice but I am more going to be worried about if anything is left alive by the time its my turn vs feeling the need to hide to protect myself and not being able to use darkness tricks cause I will blind my group as well. However, with 14 other characters/creatures besides me, flanking is covered.

I am still reeling over Hengeyokai. Swords and Sorcery - Anger of Angels page 95 - Multiform added to armor for +8000 where the armor adapts to whatever shape you shift into so you still gain full benefits. So could easily have 30++ AC in sparrow form as well as all other armor added effects.


Thx cvar, yes as I said I want to make the most of EB so was looking for feats and suggestions on that.  I love the suggestions made by kitep. Some very nice feats and magic items.

What I really want to know is if there is a weapon I can use with EB? Some item that boosts ranged attacks or touch attacks that I can get +1-+5 and other weapon added effects on. So I get more bonus to hit and damage with EB.

ksbsnowowl posted as I was typing thx.
Even with touch AC being lower it still sucks to miss lol. So want to make sure I can get an item to boost my + to hit and add other effects or damage. Like having my EB be corrosive too adding 1d6 acid damage.

[phaedrusxy]

I do not know of a way to use your eldritch blast through a weapon, no. Since it is a spell-like ability, if you could somehow gain the ability to channel SLAs through a weapon, that might work. I'm not sure how to do that, though.

[ksbsnowowl]

I do not know of a way to use your eldritch blast through a weapon, no. Since it is a spell-like ability, if you could somehow gain the ability to channel SLAs through a weapon, that might work. I'm not sure how to do that, though.

Did you forget the [/sarc] tag?

Hideous Blow does just this very thing.  It's generally viewed as sucking, because you give up the touch-attackness of EB (and you have to make a DC 16 Concentration check, unless you are wielding a reach weapon), but it does do it.  The Barb//Warlock character in my gestalt game used that invocation nearly every round.

[phaedrusxy]

I do not know of a way to use your eldritch blast through a weapon, no. Since it is a spell-like ability, if you could somehow gain the ability to channel SLAs through a weapon, that might work. I'm not sure how to do that, though.

Did you forget the [/sarc] tag?

Hideous Blow does just this very thing.  It's generally viewed as sucking, because you give up the touch-attackness of EB (and you have to make a DC 16 Concentration check, unless you are wielding a reach weapon), but it does do it.  The Barb//Warlock character in my gestalt game used that invocation nearly every round.

Ah, forgot about HB. I've never used it, and had basically convinced myself that it didn't exist after Eldritch Glaive came out.