OOC Discussion

[sirpercival]

Can I apply templates to my character "before" taking levels in tarrasque while he still counted as humanoid?

I d assume: no. and furthermore the bonuses I d get would probably not apply when my type changes but better be safe than sorry.

What would be the point?  All of osle's base classes explicitly say you lose all the benefits of everything else you had before.  So, sure, go ahead, but it won't do you any good

I am asking this because feral would be pretty awesome for my character story wise and optimization wise.Also it doesn`t make too much sense that it can be only applied to humanoids or monstrous humanoids....

Lol.  Sure it does -- animals & magical beasts are already feral, and everything else is too weird or cultured.


For everyone, I'm worried that since I'm allowing Incarnate Construct & Magic-Blooded, they're becoming the standard options for too many people.  I was hoping for a lot of variety...

[Pencil]

osle says that

Ancient body: The tarrasque loses all other racial traits and becomes a medium sized magical beast with all the related traits(basically darkivision 60 foot and low light vision). It has a base speed of 40 foot and a natural bite attack dealing 1d10+1.5 str modifier damage, and the scent ability. It has claws and tail although they're too weak to do anything for now. It is incapable of fine manipulation but it can talk in a guttural deep primal voice. It automatically knows the common language and one extra language of it's choice for each point of Int bonus.

emphasis is mine

that you lose all racial traits.Things you get by templates are no racial traits as far as I know.

Also why would you assume all animals are already feral(not the template but the adjective)?Those with a high int/wis score dont have any reason to be any more feral than humanoid.

As for variety:As for incarnate construct,it basically gives you 2LA for free.What you do with that still varies I assume.So that doesnt hurt that much.

[sirpercival]

osle says that

Ancient body: The tarrasque loses all other racial traits and becomes a medium sized magical beast with all the related traits(basically darkivision 60 foot and low light vision). It has a base speed of 40 foot and a natural bite attack dealing 1d10+1.5 str modifier damage, and the scent ability. It has claws and tail although they're too weak to do anything for now. It is incapable of fine manipulation but it can talk in a guttural deep primal voice. It automatically knows the common language and one extra language of it's choice for each point of Int bonus.

emphasis is mine

that you lose all racial traits.Things you get by templates are no racial traits as far as I know.

Everything you get from your race (templates are part of your race) are racial traits.

Also why would you assume all animals are already feral(not the template but the adjective)?Those with a high int/wis score dont have any reason to be any more feral than humanoid.

I was being facetious

As for variety:As for incarnate construct,it basically gives you 2LA for free.What you do with that still varies I assume.So that doesnt hurt that much.

Yeah, I guess so.

[Pencil]

osle says that

Ancient body: The tarrasque loses all other racial traits and becomes a medium sized magical beast with all the related traits(basically darkivision 60 foot and low light vision). It has a base speed of 40 foot and a natural bite attack dealing 1d10+1.5 str modifier damage, and the scent ability. It has claws and tail although they're too weak to do anything for now. It is incapable of fine manipulation but it can talk in a guttural deep primal voice. It automatically knows the common language and one extra language of it's choice for each point of Int bonus.

emphasis is mine

that you lose all racial traits.Things you get by templates are no racial traits as far as I know.

Everything you get from your race (templates are part of your race) are racial traits.

Good to know!Thanks.

[Pencil]

Also why would you assume all animals are already feral(not the template but the adjective)?Those with a high int/wis score dont have any reason to be any more feral than humanoid.

I was being facetious

So that means I can have it? 

[sirpercival]

Also why would you assume all animals are already feral(not the template but the adjective)?Those with a high int/wis score dont have any reason to be any more feral than humanoid.

I was being facetious

So that means I can have it? 

No, big T don't qualify.

[Pencil]

Ok another question:

Incarnate construct removes your Special Attacks and Special qualities.Does this only apply on the ones got from the construct or all of the base creatures special attacks and qualities?RAW it seems like all but I guess it was intended to only remove the ones from the construct "part" of the base creature.

Furthermore it also limits the natural armor you get.Does this also apply on the natural armor gained from the tarrasque class?Because that would indeed fuck me pretty much up.

sry to annoy you with all those things

[sirpercival]

Ok another question:

Incarnate construct removes your Special Attacks and Special qualities.Does this only apply on the ones got from the construct or all of the base creatures special attacks and qualities?RAW it seems like all but I guess it was intended to only remove the ones from the construct "part" of the base creature.

Furthermore it also limits the natural armor you get.Does this also apply on the natural armor gained from the tarrasque class?Because that would indeed fuck me pretty much up.

sry to annoy you with all those things

  It removes all of the base creature's special attacks & qualities.  It also applies to the natural armor you had before, but not new natural armor you get.

[VennDygrem]

For everyone, I'm worried that since I'm allowing Incarnate Construct & Magic-Blooded, they're becoming the standard options for too many people.  I was hoping for a lot of variety...

For my part, I only used magic blooded on one of the two characters I'm building, and while I pondered a build using both of those for the new character, I decided against it. It wasn't thematically or mechanically appropriate, and so I went on without them. He's flavorful enough with his other shenanigans.

[Sohala]

For everyone, I'm worried that since I'm allowing Incarnate Construct & Magic-Blooded, they're becoming the standard options for too many people.  I was hoping for a lot of variety...

Well, Incarnate Construct gives extra 2 LA worth of stats, while Magic-Blooded, improves most racial abilites (more often than not they scale with Cha) and a decent number of classes, while lowering in most cases will saves by 1 (most casting classes have good will saves). So free options that tune your character towards their role. From a pure min-max view point, is there a reason not to take them (assuming they help)?

Pencil trying to get feral, etc

Have you looked at Monster Blooded & Monster Hybrid?

[littha]

Can I apply templates to my character "before" taking levels in tarrasque while he still counted as humanoid?

I d assume: no. and furthermore the bonuses I d get would probably not apply when my type changes but better be safe than sorry.

I am asking this because feral would be pretty awesome for my character story wise and optimization wise.Also it doesn`t make too much sense that it can be only applied to humanoids or monstrous humanoids....

you want to read the body ability of the monster class...

[VennDygrem]

you want to read the body ability of the monster class...

Sohala actually just addressed that. Taking Monster Hybrid allows you to keep your previous racial traits. If you're able to take it at level 1, it applies right away. However, you need two feats for it to work that way, so you're using up flaws right away.

[Nanshork]

For everyone, I'm worried that since I'm allowing Incarnate Construct & Magic-Blooded, they're becoming the standard options for too many people.  I was hoping for a lot of variety...

I did something different.   

If you want more variety, you could do a ruling that I believe is the RAI of Incarnate Construct, which is that it only removes the LA the creature had BEFORE Incarnate Construct is applied instead of giving you negatives that you can then offset by taking humanoid only templates after it is applied.

I'm sure I'll be lynched if that is how you rule it.   

Edit: Looks like you might already be ruling it that way.  No lynchings for me, hooray!

[Jackinthegreen]

Given that swashbucklers now get their own sneak attack progression, how are you handling Daring Outlaw and stacking SA between rogue, swashbuckler, and whatever other SA damage the character gets?

[sirpercival]

Given that swashbucklers now get their own sneak attack progression, how are you handling Daring Outlaw and stacking SA between rogue, swashbuckler, and whatever other SA damage the character gets?

They stack as normal.

[Jackinthegreen]

I should have been more specific, and I apologize for being a bit dense:
Rogues get SA at every odd level for 10d6.  Swashbucklers get it at 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20 for 7d6.  Combining them results in 17d6.  Is that the result of them stacking normally?  I know this is high-op, but that seems a bit excessive to me.  Might just be me though.

[sirpercival]

I should have been more specific, and I apologize for being a bit dense:
Rogues get SA at every odd level for 10d6.  Swashbucklers get it at 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20 for 7d6.  Combining them results in 17d6.  Is that the result of them stacking normally?  I know this is high-op, but that seems a bit excessive to me.  Might just be me though.

It seems fine to me.  At level 20, you're getting +17d6 (average <60) damage which is not particularly difficult to be immune to, and you've done it by taking 20 levels of rogue and swashbuckler. 

[Jackinthegreen]

Well, there's also crescent knives from dragon 275, a way to flurry with those via Unorthodox Flurry from Dragon 279, plus your TWF change, and then Sakkratar's Triple Strike.

The build might go Monk1/ Swash19 and get 16d6 just from swashbuckler, then Assassin's Stance for another 2d6.  Four base attacks, plus one for flurry, plus two for STS, which is seven attacks, doubled for TWF, doubled again for crescent knives.  28 x 18d6 = 504d6, which averages 1764 damage.

Actually, now that I look at it I suppose that's rather tame compared to the best ubercharger build, or of course a hulking hurler.  I know Soro got the former to 6,000+ damage or so.  Where's a "zip my mouth" icon when I need it?  lol

[sirpercival]

Well, there's also crescent knives from dragon 275, a way to flurry with those via Unorthodox Flurry from Dragon 279, plus your TWF change, and then Sakkratar's Triple Strike.

The build might go Monk1/ Swash19 and get 16d6 just from swashbuckler, then Assassin's Stance for another 2d6.  Four base attacks, plus one for flurry, plus two for STS, which is seven attacks, doubled for TWF, doubled again for crescent knives.  28 x 18d6 = 504d6, which averages 1764 damage.

Nope.  Don't get the benefit of rogue sneak attack if you don't have any rogue levels.

Actually, now that I look at it I suppose that's rather tame compared to the best ubercharger build, or of course a hulking hurler.  I know Soro got the former to 6,000+ damage or so.  Where's a "zip my mouth" icon when I need it?  lol

 

[Pencil]

Thanks for the advices but I (someone reminded me) realized that the reasons I would need feral were the Special attacks from it and I would lose that anyway through incarnate construct.

thanks anyway