Author Topic: WTF News stories  (Read 176310 times)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #780 on: September 25, 2014, 05:47:40 PM »

... The school district only punishes sexual harassment if it was witnessed by an adult, or the kid admits it.

Holy F-ing Sh!t these people are dangerously stupid.
Let's ask those idiots two simple questions:
1) ... How often have you personally (not video) witnessed 2 people having sex?
2) ... How often does anybody in prison ever plead guilty?

 :banghead Alabama deserves !@#$
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Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #781 on: September 26, 2014, 03:29:26 AM »

... The school district only punishes sexual harassment if it was witnessed by an adult, or the kid admits it.

Holy F-ing Sh!t these people are dangerously stupid.
Let's ask those idiots two simple questions:
1) ... How often have you personally (not video) witnessed 2 people having sex?
2) ... How often does anybody in prison ever plead guilty?

 :banghead Alabama deserves !@#$

And now it's time to play devil's advocate.

How do you prove the alleged perpetrator is guilty, exactly?  It said harassment, not assault.  No rape kit or the like to scientifically prove it.  If one kid says the other sexually harassed him/her, you just assume they're being honest and the other kid is guilty?  Or perhaps if the one making the claim gets some friends to vouch for him/her?  How is that fair or just?

You're over reacting and getting angry about a policy that sounds reasonable to me.  People are innocent until proven guilty.  Well, they're supposed to be, but that hardly ever happens any more.  Between sensationalist media and social media collective moral outrage.

Offline bhu

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #782 on: September 26, 2014, 03:54:25 AM »
In his defense, this kid was well known for this behavior and had been accused multiple times by more than one person.  He always did it with no witnesses, and never admitted to anything.  Thats why the sting was set up.  the moral outrage is less about the sexual harassment of a young girl and more her abandonemnt by the authorities when she got raped and sodomized during the sting. 

Offline SolEiji

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #783 on: September 26, 2014, 04:03:11 AM »
You think they'd give the kid some kind of recording device or bug.  Audio only if privacy is that big of an issue.
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Offline Frogman55

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #784 on: September 26, 2014, 09:49:22 AM »
Or get a teacher or administrator to commit ahead of time to go in. Or ask the police (or even, gasp, a lawyer) for advice on handling the situation. Or allow established procedural methods to determine the legitimacy of witnesses' accounts instead of requiring a sting (this is why the legal system specifically allows cross examination of accusers. It's not good at identifying mistaken witnesses, it is surprisingly good at picking out lying witnesses. Unless said witness is a cop. But that's another discussion).

The key here is that a school (one that teaches minors, colleges have different standards), for various reasons, is not required to offer its students due process. Multiple reports of misbehavior, harassment, and sexual assault should be enough for the school to take steps beyond shrugging its shoulders and saying 'I didn't see anything.' Perhaps they shouldn't just expel him out of hand, but a school district has all sorts of steps available.

Frankly, if a teacher, administrator, or district employee has good reason to think crimes are being committed, or will be committed, at the very least a additional supervision should be put into place, even if they don't think it has reached the point where the police should be contacted. And frankly, given what the news is saying the school already knew, they should have called the police.

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #785 on: September 26, 2014, 09:56:14 AM »

... The school district only punishes sexual harassment if it was witnessed by an adult, or the kid admits it.

Holy F-ing Sh!t these people are dangerously stupid.
Let's ask those idiots two simple questions:
1) ... How often have you personally (not video) witnessed 2 people having sex?
2) ... How often does anybody in prison ever plead guilty?

 :banghead Alabama deserves !@#$

And now it's time to play devil's advocate.

How do you prove the alleged perpetrator is guilty, exactly?  It said harassment, not assault.  No rape kit or the like to scientifically prove it.  If one kid says the other sexually harassed him/her, you just assume they're being honest and the other kid is guilty?  Or perhaps if the one making the claim gets some friends to vouch for him/her?  How is that fair or just?

You're over reacting and getting angry about a policy that sounds reasonable to me.  People are innocent until proven guilty.  Well, they're supposed to be, but that hardly ever happens any more.  Between sensationalist media and social media collective moral outrage.

I agree with this, however, their rule is that you can ONLY punish if there's a witness.  It ignores other evidence.  Innocent until proven guilty, but there doesn't need to be a witness to prove guilt.  Witnesses ARE evidence.  They are not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but get enough of them and make them reliable and they are.  And in this case?  It IS sexual assault.  There IS non-testimony based evidence.  The adults in that school really dropped the ball and deserve what is coming.

Also, this:
Quote
Frankly, if a teacher, administrator, or district employee has good reason to think crimes are being committed, or will be committed, at the very least a additional supervision should be put into place, even if they don't think it has reached the point where the police should be contacted. And frankly, given what the news is saying the school already knew, they should have called the police.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #786 on: September 26, 2014, 05:20:23 PM »

... The school district only punishes sexual harassment if it was witnessed by an adult, or the kid admits it.

Holy F-ing Sh!t these people are dangerously stupid.
Let's ask those idiots two simple questions:
1) ... How often have you personally (not video) witnessed 2 people having sex?
2) ... How often does anybody in prison ever plead guilty?

 :banghead Alabama deserves !@#$

And now it's time to play devil's advocate.

How do you prove the alleged perpetrator is guilty, exactly?  It said harassment, not assault.  No rape kit or the like to scientifically prove it.  If one kid says the other sexually harassed him/her, you just assume they're being honest and the other kid is guilty?  Or perhaps if the one making the claim gets some friends to vouch for him/her?  How is that fair or just?

You're over reacting and getting angry about a policy that sounds reasonable to me.  People are innocent until proven guilty.  Well, they're supposed to be, but that hardly ever happens any more.  Between sensationalist media and social media collective moral outrage.

I appreciate the subtleties here.

What does that school system do with High School troublemakers?
I know you don't call the cops for every little thing, but even the cops
usually call in special investigators when rape/pedo is going on.

And every state is woefully inadequate in their resources for this.
See the Pennsylvania state system ignoring their own rules
for investigating reports against Sandusky for 15+ years.
Other bad guys did get busted during that stretch.

Since there's a direct cause and effect here, so I wonder what the
Involuntary Manslaughter version is of Accessory To Pedo.

Hey yeah, let the Justice system play itself out.  The more time the better.
Gives more public chatter to the situation. 
Dude could say:  That man is a good man.  I've made mistakes.  But I ain't got some girl, to go get that.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #787 on: September 26, 2014, 06:02:22 PM »
The "involuntary manslaughter" for anything not killing related is "criminal negligence".  It's the catch all.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #788 on: September 30, 2014, 04:34:30 PM »
Oh right, yeah that's the idea.


Someone could hire those school system people, to practice setting up more "stings", until they reach the exalted level of Keystone Cops.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #789 on: September 30, 2014, 05:03:12 PM »
In a similar vein, I found out today that one of the local teachers I know and work with was out today because her daughter broke her nose.  Yesterday.  During school.  She found out about it today.  And this isn't the first time that school system screwed over her kids like that, last year her other daughter had her earring ripped out of her ear, and the school system again did not report it.  And then told her to "put a band aid on it".  She ended up needing plastic surgery to repair the damage.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #790 on: September 30, 2014, 05:06:47 PM »
... she didn't find out last night? :huh

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #791 on: September 30, 2014, 06:44:33 PM »
I don't know the details, I just know what happened.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #792 on: October 02, 2014, 01:07:46 AM »
So....Ebola's in the US now...one confirmed case, another potential being tested...yeah...
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Offline ketaro

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #793 on: October 02, 2014, 01:16:49 AM »
Be nice to add that it's not exactly an easy thing for that to spread :p

Offline Frogman55

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #794 on: October 02, 2014, 09:27:22 AM »
It's nice for the epidemiologists when a virus isn't contagious until symptoms appear. Flu is scary because people are often contagious for several days before they actually get sick.

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #795 on: October 02, 2014, 01:27:09 PM »
Yes it's really hard for it to spread, but this outbreak has gone on for FAR too long by ebola's standards.  Usually the outbreaks kill a village, and maybe another one, but that's it.  It rapidly loses genetic stability as it infects new people, so that by the time the 4th or 5th generation of infected individuals come around, the mortality rate is in the low single digits.  And then the outbreak dies out after a couple weeks, maybe two months.  This one has been going for many months.  And has traversed great distances.  And has actually traveled to non-bordering countries.  THAT's the scary part.  It hasn't died out, and has spread further than ever before.  We're lucky it hasn't become easier to transmit, and in the US (and other developed nations) it is theoretically much harder to spread and die from it, thanks to better healthcare overall.  It does worry me that in the cities in West Africa it has been prominent, but there is hope that there's maybe a cure, and maybe even a vaccine now.  Treatments have become more advanced, but it's still a very scary disease.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #796 on: October 02, 2014, 02:31:22 PM »
Yes it's really hard for it to spread, but this outbreak has gone on for FAR too long by ebola's standards.  Usually the outbreaks kill a village, and maybe another one, but that's it.  It rapidly loses genetic stability as it infects new people, so that by the time the 4th or 5th generation of infected individuals come around, the mortality rate is in the low single digits.  And then the outbreak dies out after a couple weeks, maybe two months.  This one has been going for many months.  And has traversed great distances.  And has actually traveled to non-bordering countries.  THAT's the scary part.  It hasn't died out, and has spread further than ever before.  We're lucky it hasn't become easier to transmit, and in the US (and other developed nations) it is theoretically much harder to spread and die from it, thanks to better healthcare overall.  It does worry me that in the cities in West Africa it has been prominent, but there is hope that there's maybe a cure, and maybe even a vaccine now.  Treatments have become more advanced, but it's still a very scary disease.
This is what is terrifying... The longer it goes on, and the more people it infects, the more of a chance that this could happen statistically.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #797 on: October 02, 2014, 06:07:22 PM »
This is what is terrifying... The longer it goes on, and the more people it infects, the more of a chance that this could happen statistically.

Ebola has been around for centuries, probably millenia. Humans as well.

Besides, diseases don't wipe out humanity. Humanity wipes out diseases (smallpox killed a lot of us, but in the end it was the one who got exterminated with prejudice). And then we keep dangerous samples around as trophies or something for the evulz.

We've far reached the point that the only other organism we really worry about is other humans.

Big governments agree with me because they're burning orders of magnitude more money in developing new ways of killing humans than in ways of killing diseases.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:10:11 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #798 on: October 02, 2014, 06:09:28 PM »
This is what is terrifying... The longer it goes on, and the more people it infects, the more of a chance that this could happen statistically.

Ebola has been around for centuries, probably millenia. Humans as well.

Besides, diseases don't wipe out humanity. Humanity wipes out diseases (smallpox made a lot of us afraid, but in the end it was the one who got exterminated with prejudice). And then we keep dangerous samples around as trophies or something for the evulz.

Paranoia in case it comes back somehow or is released--we'd want a strain to start making vaccines again, preferably without having to go collect samples and delay that way. Also research, I guess.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #799 on: October 02, 2014, 06:16:03 PM »
We don't need to keep strains to make the vaccines for smallpox with our modern tech. And if a new outbreak appeared and the old vaccines by that method didn't work, it would just mean the virus had changed so much that the old strains would be useless anyway,

The only valid reason for keeping the strains around is developing new biologic weapons. Because the ability to kill humans in fancy ways is extremely valued by today's important societies. So because of paranoia and research indeed (somebody else may be weaponizing smallpox, so we'll weaponize it better!)