Author Topic: WTF News stories  (Read 176339 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #800 on: October 02, 2014, 06:23:38 PM »
I think it kind of helps to have the virus around to make a vaccine from it, given what a vaccine is--i.e., dead or drastically weaker samples. :eh

If a completely separate virus can innoculate against smallpox, vaccines made from an old strain would have a good success rate.

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #801 on: October 02, 2014, 07:22:42 PM »
The reason smallpox is still around is because it's similar to a number of other viruses.  Thus, research.  And a failsafe, so we can produce vaccines from it.  It has NOTHING to do with weapons.  Well, that's not true.  It has to do with nullifying other weapons.  And ebola's not been around for millenia...it's been around for maybe 2 centuries.

@Raineh: sometimes a vaccine is even just proteins specific to the virus.  I'm pretty sure that's how one portion of the MMR vaccine works, a single protein.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #802 on: October 03, 2014, 10:53:10 AM »
This is what is terrifying... The longer it goes on, and the more people it infects, the more of a chance that this could happen statistically.
We've far reached the point that the only other organism we really worry about is other humans.
You are delusional, as is most of humanity on this issue. Medical technology is still primitive and crude, and often does as much harm as good. We are still almost completely defenseless when it comes to viral infections (go do some research on how many viral infections are actually curable). We're one good pandemic away from mass chaos and global economic collapse.

I do agree that the scariest thing is the thought of someone intentionally making a super-virus, though, as it would be extremely simple research to do using modern DNA technology, if someone had the inclination and will. The soviets supposedly did some research on weaponizing smallpox back during the cold war, and likely succeeded to the point that their own remote research labs were wiped out by an outbreak of their own research at least once.
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Offline altpersona

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #803 on: October 03, 2014, 11:27:11 AM »
we are about .5% into a '12 monkeys' situation as it is.

1 person w/ a end game contagion is being cooperative after crossing two continents. if they had been intent on their action they could have hit all the inhabited continents in a manner of a couple days. africa is the hard one, and they started there. one flight to turkey, a nice train ride to france and back in the air to brazil... the only obstacle is the funding for expensive tickets.

a dozen cooperative people could instigate the greatest viral die off since the plague. it would only take 24 hours ish to do and they would have a 3 week head start on anyone who could help. that is all via 1 disease. it would be only as hard as finding volunteers to compound it with more pathogens.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #804 on: October 03, 2014, 11:31:57 AM »
This is what is terrifying... The longer it goes on, and the more people it infects, the more of a chance that this could happen statistically.
We've far reached the point that the only other organism we really worry about is other humans.
You are delusional, as is most of humanity on this issue. Medical technology is still primitive and crude, and often does as much harm as good.

Antibiotics alone are nothing short of a miracle. In the old days you could easily die from a simple scratch if you got an infection. Newborn children died left, right and center, and for the mother giving birth was often a death sentence as well, to the point people had specific gods to pray just for that. Drinking beer was healthier than drinking water because there were no purification systems. People were considered old geezers if they reached 50 years old. Famine would kill people in mass because your fields/herds suddenly caught a disease and you could only watch all your food rot away and starve.

Seriously, you have absolutely no idea of how many lives are currently being saved by modern medicine. Antibiotics and vaccines and anesthesics and x-rays all rock so hard you could make an anime out of it that would make TTGL look like a tame show.

Sure, some diseases may be evolving to become more resistant, but that's still miles better than letting them rampage around killing kids and moms at their leisure.

We are still almost completely defenseless when it comes to viral infections (go do some research on how many viral infections are actually curable).
Mallaria kills hundreds of thousands per year, when we can cure the infected, and most of the world has zero fucks to give about that. Because hundreds of thousands is still less than 0,01% of the (still growing) human world population of 7 billions (and most victims are poor people in countries usually filled with corruption and civilian unrest, which doesn't help matters I guess).

Anyway there's a lot to say about strength in numbers. Virus can kill a lot of people, but there's a lot more humans out there to resist it (even smallpox didn't kill more than 40% of the victims, and ironically if a disease gets too deadly it just means less hosts around to spread it).

We've been fighting diseases ever since history started being recorded. And we're winning so far.

We're one good pandemic away from mass chaos and global economic collapse.
We already had a couple economic collapses and mass chaos in the form of  two world wars over the last century, things got better.

Heck, look at Germany, basically reduced to rubble two times over the last century, still demonized to hell and back, and right now the most productive country of Europe!

Someone's crisis is somebody else's opportunity. If people die, there's still plenty of other people around left to pick up the pieces and rebuild.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 11:54:50 AM by oslecamo »

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #805 on: October 03, 2014, 01:47:38 PM »
How about this?  You're both horribly wrong.  Oslecamo, I think you are much more wrong than them, but yeah, both of you are wrong.  Viruses are the number one least curable thing we encounter, because of anti-biotics.  Bacteria and other similar biotics (like malaria) are the most lethal.  Which is a good thing, the most lethal is the most curable, and the less curable is less lethal.  However.  The reason malaria is the biggest killer of humans today is not because of a lack of caring by western nations, it's because of a lack of caring by the areas affected.  Seriously.  Bill Gates has done a LOT to combat it, but one of the biggest obstacles he talks about is getting people in areas affected heavily by it to understand that it's not a normal thing elsewhere.

But that's whatever.  You said yourself one way we should still fear disease.  Isn't a biological weapon a disease?  And you said it's the only way to fear smallpox anymore?  I don't agree with the statement that it's the only reason to fear disease anymore, but you contradicted yourself with that statement.  I don't think we need to all become hypochondriacs, but we can't act as if disease has been "beaten".  That will never truly happen.  There's still plenty to be worried about in the realm of medical science.  We still practice archaic techniques that contribute to death and illness, but we are better than we were 10 years ago.  We have some aspects that we either know nothing about or can't really do much to stop, but polio and smallpox don't exist anymore.  In other words, we're somewhere in the middle.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #806 on: October 03, 2014, 03:17:40 PM »

You're honestly making me laugh so hard right now.

People live longer and healthier, we have infant mortality rate around 5% in modern countries when it used to be 30-50%, even developing countries no longer have it that bad. And even when we stumble in something incurable, we at least have some idea of what's doing it most of the time, instead of blaming it in spirits/demons/imaginary friends.

But still you call me "wrong" when I claim that modern medicine gets shit done. Go ahead and be ignorant of all the proof around you. Just because you refuse to believe on it won't stop modern medicine from saving countless lives all around the world every day, and humanity's population to keep growing despite malaria and all other diseases trying their best/worst to screw us over.

Now let me ask you, do you fear an inanimate lump of metal? I don't. But I fear a crafted gun made from refining that metal in the hands of a maniac. And so I fear biological weapons refined from a wild disease in the hand of a maniac, but don't fear the unrefined wild disease.

I guess the inanimate lump of metal could possibly roll down a hill and crush me, but that can hardly be called a fear. Just watch out where I walk, take basic precautions. Otherwise we would be afraid of going up and down stairs.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 03:30:28 PM by oslecamo »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #807 on: October 03, 2014, 03:26:04 PM »
Gotta love how freaked out Texas is, with 1 dude.
People pulling their kids out of school ... as if the guy had been there, rolling around in the sand box.

Still, it's a pretty horrible situation in Liberia + Sierra Leone.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #808 on: October 03, 2014, 05:12:22 PM »
Our infant mortality rate is much lower than 5%.  I did not say that every dies of disease all the time, all I said was that we have not "won".  I didn't say you were wrong in saying that modern medicine got stuff done, I said you were wrong in that you were overstating how good it is.  And isn't fear nothing more than worrying about something a lot?

PREEDIT: just looked it up, the highest rate over the past 5 years is Afghanistan with a whopping 13%.  The US is hanging out around .5%  The average global appears to be around 5% or a little less.  Back in the 50's, note, this is before the polio vaccine took off and eradicated the disease, the rate was not that much higher, around 10% global, the lowest being Sweden with about 2% and highest being Afghanistan at around 30%.  US in 50's was about 3%.
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Offline bhu

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #809 on: October 03, 2014, 08:30:15 PM »

Offline ketaro

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #810 on: October 03, 2014, 08:42:57 PM »
Our infant mortality rate is much lower than 5%.  I did not say that every dies of disease all the time, all I said was that we have not "won".  I didn't say you were wrong in saying that modern medicine got stuff done, I said you were wrong in that you were overstating how good it is.  And isn't fear nothing more than worrying about something a lot?

So basically you just don't want him to be right and you definitely don't want to be wrong. Yeah. That's usually how these go, isn't it  :rolleyes
You're calling him out on being less right but he is still right  :lmao Stop trying to win

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #811 on: October 03, 2014, 08:52:01 PM »
Seriously, you have absolutely no idea of how many lives are currently being saved by modern medicine.
I have a PhD in Biophysics, and am a 2nd year medical student. So I think I have quite a good idea, actually. :P
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Offline bhu

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #812 on: October 03, 2014, 09:03:48 PM »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Offline ketaro

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #814 on: October 03, 2014, 09:14:32 PM »
Any here in Sweden? :D

Offline dman11235

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #815 on: October 03, 2014, 09:15:23 PM »
It is worth noting that it can still be considered public indecency and disorderly conduct, and maybe a few others.  Just not sexual assault.

EDIT: And yeah, they do have nude beaches up there, so they might be a little more lenient on the public indecency side of things.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #816 on: October 03, 2014, 09:16:22 PM »
Why, exactly, he was charged with sexual assault in the first place is the biggest mystery.

Offline ketaro

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #817 on: October 03, 2014, 09:18:28 PM »
Because he could have been looking at some one!

Offline bhu

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #818 on: October 03, 2014, 09:31:59 PM »
Why, exactly, he was charged with sexual assault in the first place is the biggest mystery.

Sweden has some of the worlds strictest sexual assault/harassment laws and a fairly low conviction rate.  Unlike many countries having sex with someone who is sleeping, drunk, under the influence of medication, ill, injured or mentally disturbed is rape, even if they have given consent.   It's why the honey pot trap for assange was set in sweden.  It was presumed it would be easy to convict him.  Sweden even divides it into less aggravated, normally aggravated crimes.

Examples of less aggravated: The mans genitals touches the womans when she is asleep, the mans genitals touches the womans when he is holding her in some way. She doesn’t have to resist.

Examples of normally aggravated:  The mans sex penetrates a womans vagina when she is asleep, the mans sex penetrates a womans vagina when he is holding her in some way. She doesn’t have to resist.

Touching the genitals of a woman that you are holding steady or who is asleep with your genitals can give up to four years in prison.

Having sex with a woman that you are holding steady or who is asleep when you start can give two to six years in prison.

The main standard of evidence is the testimony of the aggrieved party, whether male or female.  In short if a woman or man says a rape took place, there was one, unless you can prove they are lying.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: WTF News stories
« Reply #819 on: October 03, 2014, 09:35:13 PM »
But that doesn't explain why their first choice of 'what to prosecute him for' is sexual assault.

Quote
The main standard of evidence is the testimony of the aggrieved party, whether male or female.  In short if a woman or man says a rape took place, there was one, unless you can prove they are lying.

That is... honestly disturbing.