Author Topic: Video Game discussion  (Read 298889 times)

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #400 on: June 26, 2012, 07:22:23 PM »
A shame, b/c I thought DoW I was a great game. 

Let me know what you guys think about Torchlight 2.  The original Torchlight didn't grab me, despite its obvious similarities to Diablo.  Its skill system lacked depth, and that was something I always appreciated about Diablo 2.

And, yes, I think Blizzard has essentially shot themselves in the head.  It's amazing, they have what is arguably the most valuable piece of PC gaming IP (Diablo) lying around for a decade, and they produce a game that is anything but a careful or deliberate product.  D3 should have been a labor of love, instead they had some snide guy heading the team who could not do anything but put down D2 at every turn.

-- thanks for listening to me bitch about it ...

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #401 on: June 26, 2012, 08:22:08 PM »
Here's a little preview of the beta, so you can get an idea of how Torchlight 2 is shaping up.

And yeah, the last Blizzard game I bought was Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne.  The moment WoW came out, I could just feel that all their attention would be on it, and everything else would suffer.  And I was right.
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Offline littha

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #402 on: June 26, 2012, 08:34:02 PM »
Wow itself is a competently produced and enjoyable MMO. It could claim to be the best on the market and receive little resistance (I think EVE is a better game but that is just me).

People always go on about it being addictive or like video game crack but if it was a bad game this would never happen.


That said, it is not even my favourite blizzard game, let alone my favourite MMO...

Offline trappedslider

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #403 on: June 26, 2012, 09:24:45 PM »
Wow itself is a competently produced and enjoyable MMO. It could claim to be the best on the market and receive little resistance (I think EVE is a better game but that is just me).

People always go on about it being addictive or like video game crack but if it was a bad game this would never happen.


That said, it is not even my favourite blizzard game, let alone my favourite MMO...

I tried to play Eve,but I jsut couldn't get into it, same with TOR..so I've stuck with WoW for now.. I wanan give The Serect World a try

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #404 on: June 26, 2012, 09:45:20 PM »
WoW didn't interest me at all.  Likely, part of it was due to having played Everquest for a few months but not really finding it fun, and City of Heroes had just come out, which I enjoyed immensely.  And then over time, I saw Blizzard slowly making new features for WoW, many of which they were praised for but I had already seen out in CoH first, sometimes a year or more in advance!  Things like NPC on NPC combat.  WoW was being praised as an innovator with that one expansion that had NPCs fighting each other, and PCs could join in.  CoH had done that long before, when they wanted to change their villain group the 5th Column to The Council, in order to remove the Nazi-esque bit from their game to make it okay to release in Germany.  That had a nice little in-game story, with 5th Column soldiers fighting Council soldiers in the streets, and actually hurting and killing each other.  Not much later, they had the Rikti War Zone, where soldiers and the Rikti fought, and players could just jump right in.  That was over a year before WoW had their NPC fight zone.
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Offline Halinn

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #405 on: June 26, 2012, 10:41:03 PM »
WoW has pretty much only innovated in the way that Apple has done - take good stuff from other products, and shine it up (definitions may vary on what is good and how to properly shine things up).

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #406 on: June 26, 2012, 10:45:43 PM »
I'm actually not a fan of MMOs at all.  The gameplay they tend to create usually isn't my thing, which may explain my dissatisfaction with D3.  To some extent, at least, the storyline and dialogue would be an issue at any rate.  And, the dissatisfaction is widespread -- the D3 forums are pretty rife with it. 

And, there's nothing wrong with doing a tried and true genre and doing it well.  You just need to do it really well. 

P.S.:  I think many mediocre games can get huge followings.  Maybe if they're super ultra terribad, they couldn't, but there's a big difference between a lot of people playing it and what is unequivocally a great game.  Shadow of the Colossus and God of War fall into the latter category, even though they are fairly short. 

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #407 on: June 26, 2012, 10:53:25 PM »
And, there's nothing wrong with doing a tried and true genre and doing it well.  You just need to do it really well.

I was only complaining that WoW got all the praise for innovations that they didn't even come up with.  If they did it better, great.  Praise them for improving it.  Not coming up with it.

P.S.:  I think many mediocre games can get huge followings.  Maybe if they're super ultra terribad, they couldn't, but there's a big difference between a lot of people playing it and what is unequivocally a great game.  Shadow of the Colossus and God of War fall into the latter category, even though they are fairly short. 

I agree with this.  Both of those were awesome, and Shadow should have been far more popular.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #408 on: June 27, 2012, 12:26:51 AM »
I'm actually not a fan of MMOs at all.  The gameplay they tend to create usually isn't my thing, which may explain my dissatisfaction with D3.  To some extent, at least, the storyline and dialogue would be an issue at any rate.  And, the dissatisfaction is widespread -- the D3 forums are pretty rife with it. 

And, there's nothing wrong with doing a tried and true genre and doing it well.  You just need to do it really well. 

P.S.:  I think many mediocre games can get huge followings.  Maybe if they're super ultra terribad, they couldn't, but there's a big difference between a lot of people playing it and what is unequivocally a great game.  Shadow of the Colossus and God of War fall into the latter category, even though they are fairly short.

I'm sorry, I can agree with Shadow of the Colossus (even though it is a bit slow-paced for me, I can acknowledge it's a great game) but God of War IS mediocre. I just can't get over the fact that it's extremely overhyped, and it's hailed as if it's something new and refreshing. It's not - it's Devil May Cry set in Ancient Greece with a bald emo spartan bitch as the lead. If the whole point was to make a game based on OMFG Greek Myth, they could've just as well made the freaking Illiad. Do you guys know what Kratos actually was in myth? The god of FAIL. He was supposed to be a god of strength, yet he was constantly humiliated by trying to wrestle a giant snake and LOSING EVERY TIME.

I seriously hate that game with a passion.

I'm not a fan of MMOs either. There are a few that I find actually set themselves apart a bit though - DC Universe, Megaten Imagine, and now PSO2.
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Offline SneeR

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #409 on: June 27, 2012, 12:49:39 AM »
I'm sorry, I can agree with Shadow of the Colossus (even though it is a bit slow-paced for me, I can acknowledge it's a great game) but God of War IS mediocre. I just can't get over the fact that it's extremely overhyped, and it's hailed as if it's something new and refreshing. It's not - it's Devil May Cry set in Ancient Greece with a bald emo spartan bitch as the lead. If the whole point was to make a game based on OMFG Greek Myth, they could've just as well made the freaking Illiad. Do you guys know what Kratos actually was in myth? The god of FAIL. He was supposed to be a god of strength, yet he was constantly humiliated by trying to wrestle a giant snake and LOSING EVERY TIME.

I seriously hate that game with a passion.
Kratos from God of War is not based on the god Kratos. He may be named after him, but how many folks in ancient Greece were named "Zeus?" Probably a fair number.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I very much disagree. God of War had difficult and lackluster gameplay, but a good pace and an intriguing story. I felt very much invested in the character by the end.

God of War II is an atrocity. I've been playing it for years just to get to God of War III, and the thing just WON'T END! It says a lot about the first game that it had worse combat mechanics and graphics, but I prefer it infinitely more because the character is given an in-depth story and series of motivations. GoW2 is just a hapless string of encounters.

I played God of War years after it was released. I missed the hype. I heard everyone rave about the thing and waited a long time before getting it. Once I played, though, I understood why so many people loved the game, and why it has become a lucrative franchise. I feel every game after has missed the magic of the first one, but I understand their existence.

God of War is not a masterpiece, but it is at LEAST a clear cut above anything resembling "mediocre."
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 12:51:18 AM by SneeR »
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #410 on: June 27, 2012, 01:12:09 AM »
I'm sorry, I can agree with Shadow of the Colossus (even though it is a bit slow-paced for me, I can acknowledge it's a great game) but God of War IS mediocre. I just can't get over the fact that it's extremely overhyped, and it's hailed as if it's something new and refreshing. It's not - it's Devil May Cry set in Ancient Greece with a bald emo spartan bitch as the lead. If the whole point was to make a game based on OMFG Greek Myth, they could've just as well made the freaking Illiad. Do you guys know what Kratos actually was in myth? The god of FAIL. He was supposed to be a god of strength, yet he was constantly humiliated by trying to wrestle a giant snake and LOSING EVERY TIME.

I seriously hate that game with a passion.
Kratos from God of War is not based on the god Kratos. He may be named after him, but how many folks in ancient Greece were named "Zeus?" Probably a fair number.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I very much disagree. God of War had difficult and lackluster gameplay, but a good pace and an intriguing story. I felt very much invested in the character by the end.

God of War II is an atrocity. I've been playing it for years just to get to God of War III, and the thing just WON'T END! It says a lot about the first game that it had worse combat mechanics and graphics, but I prefer it infinitely more because the character is given an in-depth story and series of motivations. GoW2 is just a hapless string of encounters.

I played God of War years after it was released. I missed the hype. I heard everyone rave about the thing and waited a long time before getting it. Once I played, though, I understood why so many people loved the game, and why it has become a lucrative franchise. I feel every game after has missed the magic of the first one, but I understand their existence.

God of War is not a masterpiece, but it is at LEAST a clear cut above anything resembling "mediocre."

Lackluster is right, it feels like little more than a series of QTEs.

I couldn't feel anything resembling sympathy for Kratos, and I played the first game to completion. Seriously? The guy becomes Ares' bitch so he won't die, then he SOMEHOW razes HIS OWN HOME VILLAGE TO THE GROUND and kills his OWN FREAKING FAMILY IN THE PROCESS, WITHOUT REALIZING WHAT'S GOING ON?! And then he mopes and cries and decides, "Hey, since becoming one god's bitch turned out so well and dandy, why don't I become the rest of the pantheon's little ho so they'll neuralize me?"

Sorry. I cannot in good conscience believe ANYONE can POSSIBLY be that stupid.

Besides, why didn't they pick someone more suitable for the job? How the hell can't a dozen gods handle ONE? Hades alone could've sent the dead after Ares and kill him by sheer exhaustion - his army would never deplete because anyone Ares killed would just come right back from the world of the dead. Poseidon could've just drowned the sonofabitch. Zeus could have smited his ass with lightning a dozen times over.

Also, how can the gods think it's a good idea to empower a mortal with enough might to fell a god THEY COULDN'T HANDLE THEMSELVES, dangling before him a promise that they CANNOT KEEP, and then hand him the post of his murdered predecessor and hope for the best? This isn't even short-sightedness, it's blindness beyond the tip of one's nose.
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Offline SneeR

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #411 on: June 27, 2012, 01:26:25 AM »
Opinions, opinions. You are welcome to yours.

I feel sad that you could't appreciate the game like I did. Perhaps we played with different frames of reference. I genuinely enjoyed the majority of the experience; I'm glad I played it. Oh, well. I hope you didn't suffer too much consternation while playing.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #412 on: June 27, 2012, 01:37:02 AM »
At least we all seem to agree that Shadow of the Colossus was amazing, and that D3 sucks goat ass.
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Offline littha

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #413 on: June 27, 2012, 02:32:37 AM »
I actually rather liked D3. It was well made and enjoyable for the first couple of plays. It was not the messiah as some people thought it would be but I thought it was worth my money at least.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #414 on: June 27, 2012, 05:08:11 AM »
Sorry. I cannot in good conscience believe ANYONE can POSSIBLY be that stupid.

Besides, why didn't they pick someone more suitable for the job? How the hell can't a dozen gods handle ONE? Hades alone could've sent the dead after Ares and kill him by sheer exhaustion - his army would never deplete because anyone Ares killed would just come right back from the world of the dead. Poseidon could've just drowned the sonofabitch. Zeus could have smited his ass with lightning a dozen times over.

Also, how can the gods think it's a good idea to empower a mortal with enough might to fell a god THEY COULDN'T HANDLE THEMSELVES, dangling before him a promise that they CANNOT KEEP, and then hand him the post of his murdered predecessor and hope for the best? This isn't even short-sightedness, it's blindness beyond the tip of one's nose.

I didn't play the game, but did watch a bunch of youtube videos (shiny game is shiny) and well, the most reasonable explanation I see is that the gods themselves are as idiotic if not more than Kratos himself. Zeus lets himself be taunted into going into melee with Kratos instead of simply kiting him from above. Ares lets him come back from the dead again and again for the lulz and Poseidon only challenges him when they're in the top of a mountain and Kratos has Gaia herself to help keep him afloat, not to mention Hercules fighting in an arena specifically designed to remove his lion pelt of invulnerability. Hermes stage starts with him periodically taunting you for quite a bit of them, then aparently his last brain cells melt and he decides to take you on a small cramped space with kicks.

And that's precisely what makes the game popular if you ask me. Quite a bit of people out there simply love to see mythological gods protrayed as complete idiots with barely any grasp how to use their power, or simply weaklings whitout any real power. See: Exalted fans, that boast their characters can punch the gods themselves, when in their own setting even nameless street thugs punch gods in the face and get away with it. Thus a game where you get to butcher the olympican pantheon was bound to be popular simply because you get to butcher the "olympican pantheon", even if it's suddenly a bunch of idiots that don't seem to have an idea what they're capable of.


Offline littha

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #415 on: June 27, 2012, 05:26:05 AM »
Have you SEEN some of the stuff the olimpian gods got up to in the normal mythology? Not the brightest bunch...

Offline Nicklance

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #416 on: June 27, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »
Have you SEEN some of the stuff the olimpian gods got up to in the normal mythology? Not the brightest bunch...

Hell even reading Heracles and his 12 tasks is enough to make me wonder wtf is the fuss with gods. And subsequently lost even a shred of reason to even believe in other faiths.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #417 on: June 27, 2012, 08:11:24 AM »
@Diablo 3
The game is enjoyable, to an extent.  I mean, I've logged some serious hours with it, so it's not terrible.  But, there are so many glaring mistakes in it that will sink it for me.  It misses the gothic sensibility.  I might be crazy, but I actually really like the distinctive world and atmosphere that Diablo had set up.  To the extent where my buddies and I occasionally set up D&D games set in that setting.

The real problem for me is Inferno.  It's terrible.  Not that it's too hard.  It's a gear check, nothing more, and once you have the gears, it's no more difficult than anything else.  And, even if you don't have the gears, it's not even that difficult, just tedious.  Though they added enrage timers, a mechanic I had never seen before, which does more firmly enforce the gear check.  It wouldn't be so bad if the other difficulties were not eerily easy.

Given that the skill system gives me no reason to ever make a second version of any class (you can respec at a whim, and there are only 6 skills at a time to choose from), the late game is all there really will be to this game in a while.  And, they didn't bother to test it or make it really enjoyable.  I also don't love how integral the Auction House is to playing the game. 

That's the difference between D3 and a game that is really well-done (and I'm sure we can pick a few that are uncontroversial).  You get a consistent sense of lack of attention to detail and that they lost the thread of what makes games like it truly enjoyable. 



@God of War
I happen to love the franchise.  I would never say that it's innovative.  Although I find the gameplay much more enjoyable than Devil May Cry, for what that's worth.  The enemies are also more varied and interesting than they were in Devil May Cry 4, the one I played the most.  Though that may not have been the strongest one in the franchise.  In contrast to Diablo, the storyline and the character of Kratos never really grabbed me at all. 

But, everything in God of War is tuned up to 11, the game environments and the terrible things you do to things is all designed to be awe-inspiring.  In that regard, the art direction of the game really succeeds.  GoW III is a shortish game, but nearly every moment of it is breath-taking in a certain regard, and the game design manages to bring fresh life into the well-traveled territory of Greek myth.  Even if doing so requires Clancy Brown and a bit of a heavy metal sensibility. 

With regards to the plot, as others have noted, it's no LESS consistent than the Greek myths themselves. 

@Oscelamo's comments:  I'm pretty sure Ares neither knew nor could stop Kratos from coming back from the dead.  The Greek gods are the opposite of all-powerful and all-knowing, and death isn't Ares' bailiwick.  And, they're pretty famous for their arrogance.

Believe it or not, there actually is an explanation for their somewhat foolish behavior.  Although I'm not sure what the criticism is of Poseidon's behavior -- he attacks the Titans as they lay siege to Mount Olympus.  The war hadn't even started until then.   Query the quality of the explanation, and it's not a game or milieu that thrives on such things, but there is one, and oddly enough one supported by Greek myth.
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 08:20:08 AM by Unbeliever »

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #418 on: June 27, 2012, 08:44:40 AM »
You want a really well-done game that was uncontroversial?  Half-Life.  Before it came along, all FPSes were mindless shooters with the barest modicum of story to act as the "reason" for killing everything in sight.  (ignoring that most modern FPS games are trying to go back to that...)  Half-Life injected a game world that felt alive, and was rife with story and plot, even if to get much of it you actually had to listen to the people around you...  And it gave you allies, two enemy factions that were also at war with each other, and actual reasons to go where you ended up going.  Only once you get to Xen does it feel like the game's quality takes a dive, and that's due to suddenly limiting you to basically everything that you'd find in other FPSes: a path to follow, everything is always your enemy, no plot growth or advancement...
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Video Game dicussion
« Reply #419 on: June 27, 2012, 09:45:55 AM »
Opinions, opinions. You are welcome to yours.

I feel sad that you could't appreciate the game like I did. Perhaps we played with different frames of reference. I genuinely enjoyed the majority of the experience; I'm glad I played it. Oh, well. I hope you didn't suffer too much consternation while playing.

Thanks for respecting that. I have my reasons for not enjoying the experience as much as you have reasons to enjoy it. It happens.
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