Wardancer (3.5 base)

[sirpercival]

Mesmerizing Dance's duration of fascination seems short. Out of combat, 1 round isn't enough time to do much of anything useful (especially with a new save every round and a single successful save granting immunity). In combat, fascination fails automatically.

Inspiring Dance will scale ridiculously. Skill checks get optimized out the wazoo with the greatest of ease.

OK, so I'll change Inspiring Dance to check/10 instead of check/5.

That kinda leaves the same problem, just with half the values. The difference in that single ability between people who don't optimize the crap out of it and people who do is too large. Just figure out what kind of bonus you want it to give and give that.

Yeah... okay.

[GuyFawkes]

Looks good. Might want to specify if it's rounding up or down for improved inspiring dance. I'm happy you used some of my ideas. 

Now I wanna play one!!

[sirpercival]

Looks good. Might want to specify if it's rounding up or down for improved inspiring dance. I'm happy you used some of my ideas. 

I forgot about that, I'll change it.  No rounding is necessary now that the bonus caps at +5 -- I'll let it be the full bonus.

Now I wanna play one!!

Lol.  Go for it!  You could play a wardancer kitteh...

[sirpercival]

Man.  You can get a ton of attacks with this class (including the extra attacks from Improved Wardance and TWF).  Throw in DFI and a wand of high-CL Hunter's Eye with Deceptive Motion and you're a wrecking ball.


EDIT:...or just gestalt with Wyrm Warrior or Sublime Rogue.  Ha!

[TravelLog]

Do you still get to make the AoOs with Opportunistic Recovery (and it's improved version)?

If so, can you recover two/three maneuvers if a character has Improved and Greater Combat Reflexes, respectively?

[Bozwevial]

Do you still get to make the AoOs with Opportunistic Recovery (and it's improved version)?

If so, can you recover two/three maneuvers if a character has Improved and Greater Combat Reflexes, respectively?

The way I read it, you don't even have to make the AoO to recover the maneuver. You presumably have to be able to do so (so if you make your only AoO for the round and then another enemy would provoke, you don't get to recover twice), but just the fact of provoking triggers the recovery.

[GuyFawkes]

Man.  You can get a ton of attacks with this class (including the extra attacks from Improved Wardance and TWF).  Throw in DFI and a wand of high-CL Hunter's Eye with Deceptive Motion and you're a wrecking ball.


EDIT:...or just gestalt with Wyrm Warrior or Sublime Rogue.  Ha!

Dare I say Multiweapon fighting? 

[littha]

I think that for a warhammer-style wardancer (as described by others -- I have absolutely no knowledge of warhammer, and didn't even know there was a similarly-named concept), Tiger Claw would make sense. 

Considering you have the picture from the wood elf army book and the same name that is likley where the confusion is coming from.

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[Bozwevial]

I think that for a warhammer-style wardancer (as described by others -- I have absolutely no knowledge of warhammer, and didn't even know there was a similarly-named concept), Tiger Claw would make sense. 

Considering you have the picture from the wood elf army book and the same name that is likley where the confusion is coming from.

(click to show/hide)

Now see, I was just picturing a wardancer wielding a warhammer. For that you'd want Riven Hourglass and Diamond Mind.

[phaedrusxy]

I was just looking over that Dancing Fox school. Holy crap, some of those maneuvers are powerful... and I'm having a hard time imagining how some of them work. Like this stance:

Braggart's Bravado -- Dancing Fox, Stance
Level: 3
Prereqs: 1
Range: 30 ft.

You have an exceptional ability to inspire allies and distract foes.

As a Move action you may make a Perform check each round. Each round, before your next action, you or an ally within range can use the result of your Perform check in place of rolling one saving throw.

How the heck does that work, fluff-wise? And... crap that's some powerful stuff, right? As written, I guess it precludes you from moving, so you'll be limited to a standard action attack per round while using it, but still... substitute a skill check for a save, for yourself or an ally?  Against something with a really nasty single-target attack, like a bodak, this could equal a pretty much guaranteed win against something that would normally be quite scary.

And then there is a boost that acts like Mirror Image, and a counter that gives you concealment. Very nice!

[Bozwevial]

How the heck does that work, fluff-wise? And... crap that's some powerful stuff, right? As written, I guess it precludes you from moving, so you'll be limited to a standard action attack per round while using it, but still... substitute a skill check for a save, for yourself or an ally?  Against something with a really nasty single-target attack, like a bodak, this could equal a pretty much guaranteed win against something that would normally be quite scary.

Maybe you're just really, really convincing at telling the bodak its shoelaces are untied.

Wait no that's Bluff. Who knows, then.

[phaedrusxy]

Wait no that's Bluff. Who knows, then.

Right. And this discipline's class skill IS Bluff, and almost everything else in it uses Bluff... except for this stance, for some reason. 

On a side note... I'm so in love with this class, that I'm thinking of just going with a single-classed character with it, maybe swapping out a discipline or two.  Or maybe with a 1-2 level dip into Wyrm Warrior. 

[Bozwevial]

Wait no that's Bluff. Who knows, then.

Right. And this discipline's class skill IS Bluff, and almost everything else in it uses Bluff... except for this stance, for some reason. 

On a side note... I'm so in love with this class, that I'm thinking of just going with a single-classed character with it, maybe swapping out a discipline or two. 

I guess in order for our dancefight styles to differ significantly, I should go with Sublime Rogue then? Deadly Dancer already does get something similar to Wardance.

Alternatively, I could take Wardancer but juggle around the disciplines a bit. And there's also nothing keeping me from taking both. Hmmm.

[phaedrusxy]

Wait no that's Bluff. Who knows, then.

Right. And this discipline's class skill IS Bluff, and almost everything else in it uses Bluff... except for this stance, for some reason. 

On a side note... I'm so in love with this class, that I'm thinking of just going with a single-classed character with it, maybe swapping out a discipline or two. 

I guess in order for our dancefight styles to differ significantly, I should go with Sublime Rogue then? Deadly Dancer already does get something similar to Wardance.

Alternatively, I could take Wardancer but juggle around the disciplines a bit. And there's also nothing keeping me from taking both. Hmmm.

We're not going to be on the same team, anyway, right? So we don't have to worry about redundancy. Perhaps our characters will have some kind of friendly (or not) rivalry going on. Whenever they meet, it will be like a scene from You Got Served!

[Bozwevial]

Wait no that's Bluff. Who knows, then.

Right. And this discipline's class skill IS Bluff, and almost everything else in it uses Bluff... except for this stance, for some reason. 

On a side note... I'm so in love with this class, that I'm thinking of just going with a single-classed character with it, maybe swapping out a discipline or two. 

I guess in order for our dancefight styles to differ significantly, I should go with Sublime Rogue then? Deadly Dancer already does get something similar to Wardance.

Alternatively, I could take Wardancer but juggle around the disciplines a bit. And there's also nothing keeping me from taking both. Hmmm.

We're not going to be on the same team, anyway, right? So we don't have to worry about redundancy. Perhaps our characters will have some kind of friendly (or not) rivalry going on.

At the very least, our fights (if we have them) will make for a hell of a show.

[sirpercival]

I think that for a warhammer-style wardancer (as described by others -- I have absolutely no knowledge of warhammer, and didn't even know there was a similarly-named concept), Tiger Claw would make sense. 

Considering you have the picture from the wood elf army book and the same name that is likley where the confusion is coming from.

(click to show/hide)

Agreed.  Anyone have a better picture?

On a side note... I'm so in love with this class, that I'm thinking of just going with a single-classed character with it, maybe swapping out a discipline or two.  Or maybe with a 1-2 level dip into Wyrm Warrior. 

Lol!  See, here is what a homebrewer loves.

Just to make sure, you're not in love with it because it's overpowered, right...??

[phaedrusxy]

Just to make sure, you're not in love with it because it's overpowered, right...??

No. If I wanted that, I'd have played a wizard/shadowcraft mage/incantatrix with Uncanny Forethought (like in the first version of High Arcana ). It should be fun and pretty effective, though.

[phaedrusxy]

So... I'm having such a hard time choosing between this and Wyrm Warrior... that I have an idea for a new feat. How about this?

Dancing Dragon

Prerequisites
Levels in Wardancer and Wyrm Warrior, ?

Benefit
Your levels in Wardancer and Wyrm Warrior stack fully for determining your initiator level and level-based abilities for both classes.

Normal
Your initiator level and other class-based abilities are determined independently for each class.

[Bozwevial]

Now hold on, if we're going to do that...

Yo Dawg, I Heard You Like To Dance

Prerequisites:
Levels in the Deadly Dancer racial class and Wardancer

Benefit:
Your Deadly Dancer levels stack with Wardancer levels to determine your initiator level and abilities based on Wardancer class level.

Normal:
Your initiator level and other Wardancer abilities are determined independently, and you can't dance while you dance.

[Braininthejar]

Tiger Claw is about Ferocity, this class is about grace. Scarlet Rose even calls that difference out.

When evil things come into the forest, a regular elf skulks between the trees, methodically taking them down with his bow.

A Wardancer elf dyes his hair red, paints sigils on his bare chest and puts on his best underwear, then runs to the enemy and chops him to pieces. While doing somersaults.

Trust me, any concept taken from Warhammer will have ferocity in it.