Practical Demonkeeping Discussion

[Gnorman]

Feel free to discuss Practical Demonkeeping here.

[sirpercival]

Yesssss I'm so glad you ported this over.  One of my favorite handbooks!

[Endarire]

Plan to include creatures you can gate in?

[radionausea]

Hooray, I love this handbook.  I had it copied into a word document.  I'm planning on doing similar for Pathfinder where ther's not yet the number of outsiders, but the smaller factions (e.g. Rakshasas and Onis) get a few more decent options and detail

[Gnorman]

Plan to include creatures you can gate in?

oh god i hate you so much for reminding me of that

stop making me wooooooork

[Endarire]

Gate-only creatures shouldn't be that common.  After all, you have creatures with 28 HD.  Maybe some epic creatures are out there, but I don't forsee that many.

Also, see templated versions of every other creature.  (Fiendish, Pseudonatural, etc.)

From the Epic part of the SRD, only the Uvuudaum and some Abominations apply to the Demonkeeping section.  Being able to gate in gods also counts, but deities must choose to accept a gate, unlike other creatures.

[123456789blaaa]

There is actually a really obscure RAW legal way to get an Alkilith.

In the bottom lefthand corner of page 47 of the fiend folio you can see a sidebar which says:

Characters with the thrall of Juiblex prestige class (from the book of vile darkness) can summon an alkilith using the summon major demon ability they gain at 9th level, even thought the alkilith has one more HD than is normally allowed for the use of that ability.

EDIT: I've noticed that the fluff description for the demon lords and archdevils tend to be more humourous than the ones for the rest of the monsters. Any particular reason why?

[123456789blaaa]

You can bind Elder Evils. I actually wonder why you never put that in (not enough time?). Anyways this guy on gitp did an analysis for the ones you can bind here: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258840) so you don't have to spend tons of time writing them up  .

[linklord231]

Specific creatures get a Will save to negate the initial call, but assuming the Elder Evil fails that; yes, they can be Bound. 
I find it odd that the Planar Binding line doesn't have the "specific creatures are uncontrollable" clause that Gate does.

[123456789blaaa]

Specific creatures get a Will save to negate the initial call, but assuming the Elder Evil fails that; yes, they can be Bound. 
I find it odd that the Planar Binding line doesn't have the "specific creatures are uncontrollable" clause that Gate does.

Maybe they foresaw how awesome stuff like this would be (I doubt it though).

[Gnorman]

There is actually a really obscure RAW legal way to get an Alkilith.

In the bottom lefthand corner of page 47 of the fiend folio you can see a sidebar which says:

Characters with the thrall of Juiblex prestige class (from the book of vile darkness) can summon an alkilith using the summon major demon ability they gain at 9th level, even thought the alkilith has one more HD than is normally allowed for the use of that ability.

EDIT: I've noticed that the fluff description for the demon lords and archdevils tend to be more humourous than the ones for the rest of the monsters. Any particular reason why?

Nice find! Like most of the thrall classes, it's a raw deal for what you finally get out of it, but hey, you can summon an alkilith, so that's worth something.

As to the later comment: it's because I got tired and admittedly a little bored of writing long fluff entries (there was also, at the time, word count issues to deal with), and there's a lot of established fluff to draw on already. So I resorted to making snide comments.

[Endarire]

Any updates regarding the gate-only creatures?

[Gnorman]

Any updates regarding the gate-only creatures?

If and when law school ever affords me the time to do so, I will update accordingly.

[Endarire]

Danke!

[Unbeliever]

Any updates regarding the gate-only creatures?

If and when law school ever affords me the time to do so, I will update accordingly.

As a survivor of law school, I can understand.  I just wanted to let you know that I like this handbook enormously.  I am considering playing a Summoner in an upcoming game if it ever gets off the ground.  It needs to be something long-running b/c Summoners are a lot of front-loaded work.  And, I use your handbook a lot.  There might be some ways I'd prefer it to be organized -- I tend to need to search by CR/Summon Monster level more than by book -- but I can see why you did what you did, and it would be a lot of work to change things around now.

[123456789blaaa]

I recently remembered an online article detailing blood elementals  and blood mothers. Yes I know what you're thinking but they're actually evil Outsiders.

They may be inspired by/an adaptation of the ADND "corrupted" elementals from Ravenloft.

EDIT: In my copy of the FCII it says

Clerics of Glasya summon Kalabons instead of lemures with Summon Monster II spells.

You may want to add it in.
 

[123456789blaaa]

I notice you forgot to include the fiendish symbiotes from the Fiend Folio. They could be nice for Planar Binding.

[123456789blaaa]

One last thing: you say that it is unclear as to whether Implore allows for summoning either 22 HD creaturers or 24 HD creatures. The only place I can see where they mention the HD limit is in the Target entry where they say:

One elemental or outsider with 22 HD or less.

Nothing about 24 HD that I can see  .

Also, since it says that any spells or effects that effect Planar Binding also work with Implore wouldn't that mean that both
Improved Calling and Infernal Bargainer would work with it?

[Gnorman]

One last thing: you say that it is unclear as to whether Implore allows for summoning either 22 HD creaturers or 24 HD creatures. The only place I can see where they mention the HD limit is in the Target entry where they say:

One elemental or outsider with 22 HD or less.

Nothing about 24 HD that I can see  .

Also, since it says that any spells or effects that effect Planar Binding also work with Implore wouldn't that mean that both
Improved Calling and Infernal Bargainer would work with it?

You know, I have no idea why I thought it was unclear. Lost to the mists of time, I suppose. That would make the limit 26 HD - you're right, both the Malconvoker ability and Infernal Bargainer should work with it.

[Nunkuruji]

There is another Aspect of Pazuzu in the same issue as the Anzu (Issue #329)

Didn't see it mentioned, unless I missed the spoiler