Pathfinder: Forget the best, let's find the worst.

[Squirel_Dude]

I enjoy Pathfinder, I really do, but some spells, archetypes, and feats are so worthless it bottles the mind. You know, when you're so confused that it's like your thoughts are trapped in a bottle. I'm sure all of us have come across a spell or archetype that have made us look at it, scratch our heads and then refuse to let other players pick them. Friends don't let friends make terrible decisions.


How bad am I talking about? Here are a couple of examples.

Archetype: Merciful Healer (Or as a friend calls it "Gimpzilla.")
From: Ultimate Combat
What do you gain: The Mercy Ability from Lay on Hands (kind of)
What do you are forced to pick: The Healing Domain, Channeling Positive Energy, a Deity that allows these two features.
What you loose: The 2nd domain, you cannot target undead with channel energy.

Meet Gimpzilla, the most ineffective cleric ever. It can't fight or eventually turn undead. It doesn't have versatility in it's domains, but it has the mercy ability. Well, kind of. The rules as written don't actually state that you have access to the mercy feats, so you can't really gain all that much from it.

I honestly have no idea what the appeal behind this class would be as anything other than a flavor NPC or character for a party with 7 people where you aren't loosing as much if your cleric is a super-gimp.

Spell: Haunted Fey Aspect
From: Ultimate Combat
A zero level Bard/Sorc/Wizard spell, with a duration of 1 round per caster level, and a target of the caster. Here is the description:

"You surround yourself with disturbing illusions, making you look and sound like a bizarre, insane fey creature. You gain DR 1/cold iron against a single opponent until the end of the spell, or until you take damage."

Congratulations, you have a DR 1/cold iron until you take damage. So you can use this spell to possibly ignore a single point of damage. Well, at least you look like an insane fey creature. That would be a handy disguise if it wasn't something that freaked people out and lasted longer than 2 minutes. Seriously just use ghost sound, it will attract less attention than this. It's a 0 level spell, and I feel it should be -1

(In all honesty, I actually found a use for this spell: Having a crazy illusionist sorceror pretend to be a crazy fey creature)

[Prime32]

I could have sworn Merciful Healer was the prereq for a feat which let you "overheal" people, but I can't find it any more.

[radionausea]

This, this, this

[Amor]

This, this, this

...Wow, that is just...  Wow.  They couldn't even take a cue from the Vow of Poverty feat in 3.5, which somewhat makes it worth it (at least for early levels)?

Although to be fair, there's nothing in that vow that stipulates you need to donate your share of the party treasure, so the rest of the party will get richer.  But that just makes it all the more obvious how far behind you'll be.

[radionausea]

Prone Shooter is a feat that gives no benefit whatsoever as well.

The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

you can ignore the penalty the prone condition imposes on ranged attack rolls you make using a crossbow or firearm with which you have Weapon Focus.

There is no penalty imposed...

[Halinn]

Radionausea, don't put quotes around your links. It makes them not work properly. Instead, the code for them is this: [url=minmaxboards.com]Min Max Boards[/url] = Min Max Boards!

[Prime32]

This, this, this

...Wow, that is just...  Wow.  They couldn't even take a cue from the Vow of Poverty feat in 3.5, which somewhat makes it worth it (at least for early levels)?

Although to be fair, there's nothing in that vow that stipulates you need to donate your share of the party treasure, so the rest of the party will get richer.  But that just makes it all the more obvious how far behind you'll be.

The designer argument was essentially "Duh, if you give up all your items it's supposed to make you weaker. If you don't enjoy the added challenge and rich roleplaying opportunities then you are a munchkin."

Also: taking a Vow prevents you from meeting the prereqs for monk feats/PrCs for some reason (since you give up Still Mind).

[radionausea]

Thanks Halinn, edited.

[Squirel_Dude]

This, this, this

Good lord.

That is terrible.


The Spyglass:

"Objects viewed through a spyglass are magnified to twice their size. Characters using a spyglass take a –1 penalty on Perception skill checks per 20 feet of distance to the target, if the target is visible."

It does not say "instead of" the normal penalty (which is +1 to the DC of a perception check/10 feet). Apparently, if you use a spyglass, it actually becomes 50% harder to see things.

[radionausea]

The one that gets my goat the most is the First Worlderarchetype for the Summoner.  You swap your SLA of SM for an SLA of SNA (a decrease in power) and have the added addition of having your Eidolon made craptastic.


Compare with theWild Caller. Why woulf anyone ever, ever take First Worlder?

[phaedrusxy]

This, this, this

Good lord.

That is terrible.


The Spyglass:

"Objects viewed through a spyglass are magnified to twice their size. Characters using a spyglass take a –1 penalty on Perception skill checks per 20 feet of distance to the target, if the target is visible."

It does not say "instead of" the normal penalty (which is +1 to the DC of a perception check/10 feet). Apparently, if you use a spyglass, it actually becomes 50% harder to see things.

[Amor]

This, this, this

Good lord.

That is terrible.


The Spyglass:

"Objects viewed through a spyglass are magnified to twice their size. Characters using a spyglass take a –1 penalty on Perception skill checks per 20 feet of distance to the target, if the target is visible."

It does not say "instead of" the normal penalty (which is +1 to the DC of a perception check/10 feet). Apparently, if you use a spyglass, it actually becomes 50% harder to see things.

Well, it sort of makes sense given the fact that the spyglass dramatically decreases your field of vision. 

[Halinn]

Not quite pathfinder specific, but the monk still isn't proficient with unarmed strikes.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Vow of Poverty is the worst class feature, by far.

The worst archetype is Ragechemist.  It is the classic trap.  The fluff and hige str bonus (only a net +2 more, in actuality) make it look really tempting to noobs.  But in fact, using it basically guarantees you will be comatose within 5-7 rounds of combat, and remain so for over an hour.  Badass, huh?

Monk of the Healing Hand gets honorable mention for having a capstone that erases himself and all memory and written record of himself from existence.  That's what paizo thinks of monks, folks.

Worst spell?  I don't know... Mirror Strike is pretty hilariously bad.

Worst feat is Elephant Stomp.  You spend a feat for the option to do something worse than you could already.  Basically, if you take the feat and win an over run check by a lot, you can swap the movement and knocking the foe prone to make a unarmed/natural attack instead.  Cause you totally just spent a standard action trying to succeed on a combat maneuver just so you could attack instead.

[veekie]

That's what paizo thinks of monks, folks.

More like what SKR thinks of monks I think.

If you pay attention to the monk nerfs and edits, you can see the hand of several people adding good things(or what they think are good, I wouldn't accuse them of competence) to the monk(brass knuckles, full BAB while flurry, ki monk) and then when SKR finds out, they get nerfed back down when he thinks he can get away with it.

[Prime32]

Monk of the Healing Hand gets honorable mention for having a capstone that erases himself and all memory and written record of himself from existence.  That's what paizo thinks of monks, folks.

You can, however, cause shenanigans by getting 26 monks, each of whom is named after a letter of the alphabet, to use their capstone at the same time.

Worst spell?  I don't know... Mirror Strike is pretty hilariously bad.

What about Blood Crow Strike? The target counts as being in your threatened space forever. When the page was being added to the SRD there was a comment that said something like "I wonder if we should add a note saying that we're aware this spell makes no ****ing sense."

[Bozwevial]

Not strictly related, but proof that SKR does not understand momentum/does not want chargers to feel good about themselves:

If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the extra damage multiplier from charging?

No, for two reasons.

One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.

Two, even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because there is no rule in the Core Rulebook that allows a PC to charge and take multiple attacks with a weapon, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)

[radionausea]

The man is a cretin.

[Risada]

Not strictly related, but proof that SKR does not understand momentum/does not want chargers to feel good about themselves:

If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the extra damage multiplier from charging?

No, for two reasons.

One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.

Two, even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because there is no rule in the Core Rulebook that allows a PC to charge and take multiple attacks with a weapon, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)

The guy supercedes RAW with his own opinion? Nice!

Thank the Host I don't play Pathfinder.

[Solo]

Hold on... doesn't some analog of 3.5e Cleave exist in Pathfinder?