Author Topic: Why do fighters suck?  (Read 40918 times)

Offline Solo

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Why do fighters suck?
« on: August 07, 2012, 05:39:09 PM »
After all, they get tons of feats, they can contribute in both melee and ranged combat, and they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.
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Offline pelzak

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 05:44:11 PM »
they can contribute in both melee and or ranged combat
Usually fighter is good at one of those.

they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.
Everyone can. This argument can justify that any class is great.

In general there is one common answer to your question/remark.
Lack of flexibility.

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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 05:50:51 PM »
Strong the sarcasm with this one is.

Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 06:19:18 PM »
Fighters have the highest BAB to get 9th level spells, and the second highest HD on any class that can get 9s. Broken!!1!111!!oneone!

On a more serious note, you can't build Jack B. Swift quite as well without 16 levels of fighter, right?

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 06:23:12 PM »
After all, they get tons of feats, they can contribute in both melee and ranged combat, and they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.

the class does best by augmenting other classes, rather than standing alone
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 06:27:59 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 06:24:42 PM »
Why would you ever play a fighter when you can play this?
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Offline Zionpopsickle

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 06:32:51 PM »
As a serious reply, it isn't really that the fighter sucks but that the paradigms that a fighter is strong at are not that good.  Being good at melee or ranged combat is much weaker than being good at debuffing, battlefield control, or buffing.  This is why many fighters us AoO styles of fighting, since this gives them an element of BFC in giving them area control over things within their reach. 

Offline kitep

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 07:34:45 PM »
I think it's a combination of versatility and the "15 minute workday".


Offline bhu

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 12:10:19 AM »
After all, they get tons of feats, they can contribute in both melee and ranged combat, and they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.

Because they don't get laid as often as mages unless you count forcible encounters whereupon they are required to use their skills at fellatio to save their lives.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 01:03:59 AM »
After all, they get tons of feats, they can contribute in both melee and ranged combat, and they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.

Because they don't get laid as often as mages unless you count forcible encounters whereupon they are required to use their skills at fellatio to save their lives.
/thread.

Offline Bozwevial

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 01:18:09 AM »
After all, they get tons of feats, they can contribute in both melee and ranged combat, and they can use their wealth to buy magical items which help them overcome their inherent weaknesses.

Because they don't get laid as often as mages unless you count forcible encounters whereupon they are required to use their skills at fellatio to save their lives.
The sad thing is that even in this area, fighters are outdone by their wizardly counterparts. You can go on all you like about whether the half-naked oiled men or the bearded men in dresses are more skilled at the art, but as far as the pinnacle of sucking goes, you can't beat the sphere of annihilation, and it wasn't a fighter who created that.

We think, anyway. It's 90% certain.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 05:01:33 AM »
The sad thing is that even in this area, fighters are outdone by their wizardly counterparts.
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Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 09:21:07 PM »
I'm not sure if OP is being sarcastic or not, but in summary, Fighters in particular are weak because feats never were as good as class features, save for a couple which aren't on the Fighter feat list anyway. Feats don't scale, their effects are minor, and much more useful things could be gotten from other classes.

Of course, Fighters aren't all bad. Once you leave core, there are things like the Zhentarim Soldier and various alternate class features and better feats to choose from, so if one makes an effort to it one can make a decent Fighter character1. However, even at the highest point of sourcebook use, there still isn't any reason to be a pure Fighter. You're better off multiclassing because you inevitably run out of feats that are necessary or useful for your character.
1This is in the context of comparing the Fighter to other warrior characters and not to spellcasters or experts, which is a whole other bag of worms

In the end, the Fighter class is a product of its time. They were developing 3.0, when Feats were a new and exciting thing and they vastly overestimated their usefulness. Nowadays we have newer, better-thought-out classes like the Warblade as well as various multiclass builds that let you play your chosen warrior character concept, but to play a pure, unaltered Fighter is just not a good idea. There are better and more fun ways to do it.

Offline Arz

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 04:22:43 PM »
Although they can Craft(Toy Soldier) the fighter is unable to Profession(Soldier) his way to a stable income.  :sobbing

Offline radionausea

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2012, 04:51:32 PM »
I'm not sure if OP is being sarcastic or not

Oh he's deadly serious.  I've never seen Solo crack a joke.
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Offline Agita

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 05:34:18 PM »
The sad thing is that even in this area, fighters are outdone by their wizardly counterparts. You can go on all you like about whether the half-naked oiled men or the bearded men in dresses are more skilled at the art, but as far as the pinnacle of sucking goes, you can't beat the sphere of annihilation, and it wasn't a fighter who created that.

We think, anyway. It's 90% certain.
Ah, but Fighters both suck and blow, at the same time. And they do it all the time; they don't need any fancy spells to do it for a short while.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 05:36:43 PM by Agita »
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Offline Keldar

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 07:00:56 AM »
Fighters suck because they have to spend a feat on EWP: Fan in order to blow.  Plus they don't get Familiars.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 07:46:34 AM »
Fighters suck because they have to spend a feat on EWP: Fan in order to blow.  Plus they don't get Familiars.

/thread
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Offline ChupacabraJohn

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2012, 03:02:51 PM »
The fighter doesn't suck, all you have to do is cross-class UMD & then you're golden.
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Offline darqueseid

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Re: Why do fighters suck?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2012, 03:30:04 PM »
Fighters suck because they are rooted in reality. 

The "best" 20th level fighter with max AC and max Base attack bonus with all coordinating feats is still inferior to any wizard/sorcerer with celerity, Clerics with DMM or celerity themselves, Druid summons or snares, psions, etc etc etc...

to borrow from the matrix, the fighter may eventually get so good that he can dodge bullets, but when the tier ones are ready, they don't have to